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  #1  
Old September 25th, 2020, 15:27
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Eliminate brake self adjusters?

I have a 99 NON ABS with the Chrysler rear end. I have been fighting one rear drum (driver side) running hotter for about a year now. It started with a smoking drum and from there and since then I have replaced the cylinder twice, all springs, the line to the wheel from the axle block and it still runs hotter (about 60F-80F degrees). It only ever got the point of smoking once. I can't trust it to go on a trip over about 20 minutes since it gets progressively hotter at highway speeds and I dont' want to deal with it locking up again or some other catastrophe. It got hot enough recently to warp a brand new drum that I put on in June. E brake is not used but functional, bearing seems good, no noise no play at all. I think the only explanation is that the adjuster keeps over tightening to the point of introducing drag for some reason.

I saw on another forum guys talking about a hardware kit to eliminate adjusters on a particular Ford truck. Is there such a kit available for the XJ and or how could you stop the adjusters from working and then just manually adjust as needed? On the same forum a guy recommended cutting the cable that goes to the spring mechanism that rides against the adjuster but I didn't want to do anything without posting here for advice first. I'm just ready to push this $#&%*ing thing over a cliff and it's a shame I just replaced the front track bar, strut ..exhaust a couple years ago and it only has 142k but I'm losing my mind trying to get this issue solved.
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  #2  
Old September 25th, 2020, 15:47
Unclewolverine Unclewolverine is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Gotta ask, are you sure you are assembling everything in the right order? These things are really finicky about being put together absolutely correctly, although the result of in-correct assembly is usually the adjuster not working at all, just a thought. A lot of threads online dont even get them right.
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  #3  
Old September 25th, 2020, 16:23
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclewolverine View Post
Gotta ask, are you sure you are assembling everything in the right order? These things are really finicky about being put together absolutely correctly, although the result of in-correct assembly is usually the adjuster not working at all, just a thought. A lot of threads online dont even get them right.
Yep, pretty dang sure I've had and worked on 2 different XJ's since 2005. I know that doesn't mean anything (could have been doing it wrong all that time), but I've had a few other people check as well and have referenced many many videos and images online thinking there was something I was missing. The ONLY discrepancy in the whole thing is that the left (front) shoe on that side does not sit right in the middle of the cylinder piston (the little metal ear part that contacts the cylinder piston). It still functions obviously but that is something notable. There is no way to change that that I could see, and with that same setup it ran for a month or so with no issues which is why I kind of ruled it out. Not even sure how I'd fix it since the cylinder has no adjustment and the shoes just sit where they do. I really think every time I back out of a parking spot or back into the driveway it's just cranking that adjuster out.
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  #4  
Old September 25th, 2020, 16:36
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Eliminate all it with some KJ disc's!
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  #5  
Old September 25th, 2020, 16:47
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

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Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
Eliminate all it with some KJ disc's!
Yeah at one point that was a thought but not at this point anymore LOL! Not sure how much life I have in it since I'm in the rust belt and so sad with the low mileage of 142k.
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  #6  
Old September 26th, 2020, 03:38
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Ok let's take another approach... can anyone recommend the best possible hardware kit available (US made?) and the best shoes? I have access to anything online and locally...oreilly's, autozone and advance. Maybe I'll give it one more shot replacing all hardware and shoes and see if that helps.
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  #7  
Old September 26th, 2020, 04:04
Ralph77 Ralph77 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

I work at a Napa so I have tendency to buy Napa parts.
I did a complete, and I mean compete, complete rear brake job about 6 years ago.
My long line from the proportioning valve looked pretty crusty too.
So I bought new hardware, wheel cylinders, brake shoes, and drums.
Hell I even replaced the parking brake bars just cause I could.
Bought premade nicopp line for the long line into the hose, replaced that too and more for the 2 short lines out to the wheel cylinders from the hose.
Cut and reflared one end to get the lengths I wanted.
So the UP line for hardware, wheel cylinders, and the regular ND line drums.
Where I did splurge was on the shoes. I bought the UP line ones instead of the TS line ones.
If I have any problems I am unware of them. LOL.
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  #8  
Old September 26th, 2020, 12:50
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph77 View Post
I work at a Napa so I have tendency to buy Napa parts.
I did a complete, and I mean compete, complete rear brake job about 6 years ago.
My long line from the proportioning valve looked pretty crusty too.
So I bought new hardware, wheel cylinders, brake shoes, and drums.
Hell I even replaced the parking brake bars just cause I could.
Bought premade nicopp line for the long line into the hose, replaced that too and more for the 2 short lines out to the wheel cylinders from the hose.
Cut and reflared one end to get the lengths I wanted.
So the UP line for hardware, wheel cylinders, and the regular ND line drums.
Where I did splurge was on the shoes. I bought the UP line ones instead of the TS line ones.
If I have any problems I am unware of them. LOL.
your last line... you know, if it hadn't been smoking last year and I started focusing on it...most people would probably not even know! My brother told me that, too. BECAUSE it was a major issue in the past, I started checking with the thermometer all the time where yeah, maybe a lot of people wouldn't even know or care. I'm just paranoid that it's going to happen again and no, I don't think running 60F hotter on one side is normal. I could see maybe 20 or so but after a long drive last weekend the passenger side was 100 and the driver side was 200...way too big of a difference. I took it out today for a few longer runs to test and it got up to about 140 where the other side was about 100 (replaced the drum on that side last weekend ..can't remember if I said that already or not). Anyway guess I'll just keep after it and if I get irritated enough I'll redo both sides with the NAPA stuff you mentioned.
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  #9  
Old September 26th, 2020, 13:05
Ralph77 Ralph77 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gba88 View Post
your last line... you know, if it hadn't been smoking last year and I started focusing on it...most people would probably not even know! My brother told me that, too. BECAUSE it was a major issue in the past, I started checking with the thermometer all the time where yeah, maybe a lot of people wouldn't even know or care. I'm just paranoid that it's going to happen again and no, I don't think running 60F hotter on one side is normal. I could see maybe 20 or so but after a long drive last weekend the passenger side was 100 and the driver side was 200...way too big of a difference. I took it out today for a few longer runs to test and it got up to about 140 where the other side was about 100 (replaced the drum on that side last weekend ..can't remember if I said that already or not). Anyway guess I'll just keep after it and if I get irritated enough I'll redo both sides with the NAPA stuff you mentioned.
There is one reason that I am pretty sure I am not.
Rather embarrassing actually.
When I got the new drums I rattled canned them with some black paint I had lying around real quick.
Not even thinking about the heat that gets generated there.
By the time I realized I should have used some high temp paint it was too late.
Well I rotate my tires every year and the black paint actually held up better then I thought it would.
Figure if I had that problem would have noticed the paint baked off the first year.
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  #10  
Old September 26th, 2020, 19:24
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Runnin'OnEmpty Runnin'OnEmpty is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gba88 View Post
Yep, pretty dang sure I've had and worked on 2 different XJ's since 2005. I know that doesn't mean anything (could have been doing it wrong all that time), but I've had a few other people check as well and have referenced many many videos and images online thinking there was something I was missing. The ONLY discrepancy in the whole thing is that the left (front) shoe on that side does not sit right in the middle of the cylinder piston (the little metal ear part that contacts the cylinder piston). It still functions obviously but that is something notable. There is no way to change that that I could see, and with that same setup it ran for a month or so with no issues which is why I kind of ruled it out. Not even sure how I'd fix it since the cylinder has no adjustment and the shoes just sit where they do. I really think every time I back out of a parking spot or back into the driveway it's just cranking that adjuster out.
Any chance the primary and secondary shoes are reversed?
Also check the spring pressure on the star-wheel and that it turns
freely and is lubed.
Self-adjusters have been around a very long time and have worked well.
Something must be assembled wrong, or it might be a sticking wheel
cylinder...
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  #11  
Old September 26th, 2020, 19:27
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Runnin'OnEmpty Runnin'OnEmpty is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Oops, I see you've replaced the cylinder twice,
so that's obviously not the problem.
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  #12  
Old September 26th, 2020, 19:42
Unclewolverine Unclewolverine is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Could try replacing the backing plate. Something is wonky somewhere and everything else has been replaced.
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  #13  
Old September 27th, 2020, 12:14
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclewolverine View Post
Could try replacing the backing plate. Something is wonky somewhere and everything else has been replaced.
Yeah, That was one of my last suspicions but since I guess you have to take the axle shaft out and go through a bunch of stuff...not too appealing at the moment since I had eye surgery a month ago and will likely be having the other eye done in a couple weeks....really can't get into anything major needless to say. I was questioning the pads that the shoes ride on.... the bottom ones are almost not visible from corrosion. I had my dad dremel them with a wire wheel (since I cannot do anything that generates dust while the eye is healing)... but anyway he dremeled them ...shined them up then we put some high temp caliper grease on them.
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Old September 27th, 2020, 14:49
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8Mud 8Mud is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Two major problems with those self adjusters as long as everything is moving freely. One is the pivot for the adjuster cable, it is really easy for it to pop out of the pivot hole and not be noticed. Second is there was a rash some sears back of the cable being the wrong lengh. Either a manufacturing flaw or part number mislabeld or the wrong number in the catalog. There wasn't a lot of difference between the proper cable and the wrong cable. I started comparing the old cable to the new cable as a quick check.

The only other common problem is the shoes wear a groove in the back plate sometimes. I don't actually know if this causes any serious issue, but whatever, it is unlikely to be a good thing.

Is it possible the parking brake cable is hanging in the sleeve? Fairly common, especially if the end seal/cap has rotted off.
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  #15  
Old September 28th, 2020, 09:29
gba88 gba88 is offline
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Re: Eliminate brake self adjusters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mud View Post
Two major problems with those self adjusters as long as everything is moving freely. One is the pivot for the adjuster cable, it is really easy for it to pop out of the pivot hole and not be noticed. Second is there was a rash some sears back of the cable being the wrong lengh. Either a manufacturing flaw or part number mislabeld or the wrong number in the catalog. There wasn't a lot of difference between the proper cable and the wrong cable. I started comparing the old cable to the new cable as a quick check.

The only other common problem is the shoes wear a groove in the back plate sometimes. I don't actually know if this causes any serious issue, but whatever, it is unlikely to be a good thing.

Is it possible the parking brake cable is hanging in the sleeve? Fairly common, especially if the end seal/cap has rotted off.
Parking break is functional as far as I know. Those cables... was it an issue with them being too long or too short or what? I noticed that they seem to have slack in them (both sides) and as long as i've done the brakes i don't' remember that being the case ...just occurred to me the other day I was inspecting them again. So now that you mention that... these were bought at oreilly around last fall I beleive.
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