Long Arms for Overland/Daily Driven, Narrow/Low COG Build, Turning Radius?

Hey guys, this isn't my first stroll down long arm lane. I have a 98 Cherokee that has a Froehlich Suspension 3 Link kit. Im at about 6.5" of lift, well setup. No steering stabilizer, bad alignment, and it tracks straight as can be without a hint of wobble. The Froehlich Kit uses RuffStuff Heims, 1.25" on the Frame side of the lowers, 7/8" on both ends of the upper link and the track bar, and Ballistic Fab Poly bushings on the axle end of the lowers. I love the kit, but I was much happier when my Jeep was at 4" of lift with control arm drop brackets. After 10 years of owning this jeep, it unsettles me, but I believe im going to buy another XJ and do a bit more refined of a build. I can't take mine lower, because the Froehlich kit really needs 5" of spring at least to be happy in terms of link length, and I have cut out flares, and other things that make me need to just start fresh.. SOOOoo.

I'm going to swap my axles over so I can keep my ARB Super 30 Air locker, my Chromoly 30 Spline Axles, 4.88 gears and my rear locker.

I plan on Driving this Jeep every day, and I plan on being able to drive it for 2,000 mile trips without regret. A true, Overland capable XJ.

I do not want to go any higher than 4.5". I would be happy at 3.5" if I could get it set up right. I intend to run a 35" tire, and to Bump stop the suspension accordingly. I will obviously be running a higher offset/backspaced wheel. Most likely my OEM Jeep MOABS. I currently run them with 1.25" spacers, but I wouldn't need them if I was going under stock fender flares.

My concerns are that if I'm running wheels with a higher backspacing, or a narrower track, im worried about how much I will be rubbing on the lower control arms. That is one problem I have with my current Froehlich kit, and I only have 33" tires on it at the moment. I don't want to lose any of my OEM turning radius, or at least as little as possible.

SOOOOo.. Finally. I'm looking for the best Long Arm kit to run at lower heights and that offers the most turning radius clearance. I'm also looking for the best kit in terms of daily drivability. In otherwords, I want flex joints and preferably rubber bushings if I can get them(instead of solid heims and poly like I have now.

I Like the TNT Customs Y-Link, and it appears they offer a lot of tire clearance and can be ran at 3.5" of lift. They are also the most expensive, but I would pay for exactly what I want. It's nice having a clear plan of what I want to do, having been through it all before. I also already have a TNT TrackBar, which I will be using, so that's a plus.

Iron Rock Offroads Y Link kit also comes to mind: I wonder how their tire clearance is? any input? my reservation with IRO is that odd caster adjustment, I feel like I have seen a few of those mangled up.

I LOVE Clayton 3 Link Kits, but I am worried about turning radius clearance. I like their price, and I like the idea of having full length links instead of Radius Arms. I've read the problems about binding with Ylink/Radius arm kits, and that isn't a concern for me, I more have a concern with what I see described as "unloading" while going up hill? I like hill climbs, but I like feeling planted while I do it. Can anyone explain this to me? I also wonder how solid and straight a Y Link setup feels going down the road. As I said, my current jeep is ROCK SOLID, and I don't have to run a steering stabilizer, which I would expect to be able to do the same thing on my new build.


SO... Im open to suggestions.. All of you guys building Low Center of Gravity rigs, and especially the ones doing narrow builds, what long arm kits are you using???

Is it true that Y-Link/Radius arm setups "unload" going up hill? does this make it sketchier on significant hill climbs?

Like I said, I'm looking to build the best possibly driving, functional, trail rig. I like to wheel, but I like destination wheeling the most. Having plenty of down travel, and lockers front and rear, and I'll be good to go as far as traction. But the most important thing is that I can get this to drive like a well setup jeep on short arms and with the arms parallel to the ground (like with drop brackets).

Thanks for any input,
Brian

Here is my current Jeep....
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1056392&page=5

That's asking a lot. You're probably going to have to compromise somewhere. I have no direct experience, but the full traction kit sounds like a good option for you. However they recommend 5" lift, and not many long arm kits recommend less. Your looking at something custom to meet your wants.

polyperformance.

Poly has a nice set of frameside brackets if you want to build your own. They also have a complete kit.

Im really looking at TNT Customs Kit, which is fine at 3.5", Full Traction, or Clayton.

It seems more and more are starting to say negative things about Y-Link/Radius arm setups. TNT was my first choice, but now im second guessing it a bit.

90% of the time, you will never notice the downfalls of a radius arm kit, especially at that height.

if i were you id get either rock krawler's 3 link, clayton's 3 link, or poly's kit. if you get a 3 link, it's best to use all hard joints. that being said, TNT makes a very nice setup. STAY AWAY FROM IRO. a local guy has been stranded away from home for 4 days bc of that goddamn caster piece of shit... and it isnt the first documented failure.

I have the TNT kit at about 5" with 35's and 4.56's I drive it daily. It runs straight as an arrow at 75 mph down the highway. I'm very happy with it, but like you, I'm considering lowering it an inch or so. I was happier when I was at 4" on on 32's at least on the street. I think the binding issue is overblown. Sure a 3-link is a "better" setup, but for my needs the radius arm setup is fine and was much simpler to package.

I was in the same boat. I'm at 3" and 35s. I also have my tires on stock eccos rims with 2" spacers. With my cut fenders the tire tucks inside the lip at full stuff.

Right now I have drop brackets. It flexes to the high heavens right now but I land on the drop brackets all the time. I am planing on building my own at this point. Poly performance is deffinately the way to go if you want to buy/bolt something on. Great clearance and tough.

I'm going to grab the ruffstuff 3 link kit and put bends in the lowers to add clearance like they do. However I'm going with a mid arm setup. I think it will suite the lcg build type better.

I love my Current 3 link setup, I will say that, but I do want rubber bushings on one end.

I like that 3/4 link setups are what JeepSpeed series events call for, and I obviously see the benefit of maintaining caster angles. The Jeep will be driven down dirt roads and such fairly often, and one of the bigger reasons I want to go back down to 4" or so is because of how well the jeep handled at that height.

I'm willing to go as high as 4.5", but no higher. I too, would love to have lower links that offer more turning clearance, because I want to keep it narrow; even with 1.25" spacers, my 33x12.5" tires hit on my lower links with the Froehlich kit.

So a Clayton wont work for a 4" spring? that's depressing. I just hate that Full Traction has no skid plate. BDS looks nice, but I already have a track bar and mount, and I already have disconnects, ill be buying bilsteins, and I can get some new RE Springs for under $350, front and rear. I ran Rusty's springs on my Current XJ, and I'm definitely not doing that again. Their 4.5" coil was ok, but their 6.5" coil is way too stiff.

Anyway, I obviously need just the control arms and the crossmember. The Clayton Kit is really appealing, but I worry about tire clearance, and obviously being able to run it that low.

Plus, I want a damn skid... LOL... my Froehlich crossmember is nice!!

The Poly Performance kit looks interesting, but no skid
I like it though... Only thing is that it would be a beast to install with Frame Rail Stiffeners

I'm in the same boat... DD my junk and want some sort of long arm setup with underbelly armour. Don't throw anything at me, but what about Rough Country's setup? I've heard it's stout and they've made great upgrades to their joints. I just hate that you can't unbolt to center section for access.

I too would hate to loose any turn radius. I'll be at 4-4.5" height and running 32"s.

Brent T said:

I have the TNT kit at about 5" with 35's and 4.56's I drive it daily. It runs straight as an arrow at 75 mph down the highway. I'm very happy with it, but like you, I'm considering lowering it an inch or so. I was happier when I was at 4" on on 32's at least on the street. I think the binding issue is overblown. Sure a 3-link is a "better" setup, but for my needs the radius arm setup is fine and was much simpler to package.

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Can it drive "fast". I know that sounds crazy, but with current 3-Link, I can haul tail in my Jeep down mountain roads, and even without sways(on stiff, Rusty's 6.5" springs) I can really depend on my jeep to do what I want it to. Do you have any bump steer? Are you running their trackbar? I had their trackbar on my Jeep before, and I still have it, I fully intend on using it on my next Jeep. Super Stout, and at 4.5", with a stock steering angle, it's perfect. Do you have to run a steering stabilizer? How is brake dive? What about pounding down gravel roads?

GordoSmasho said:

I was in the same boat. I'm at 3" and 35s. I also have my tires on stock eccos rims with 2" spacers. With my cut fenders the tire tucks inside the lip at full stuff.

Right now I have drop brackets. It flexes to the high heavens right now but I land on the drop brackets all the time. I am planing on building my own at this point. Poly performance is deffinately the way to go if you want to buy/bolt something on. Great clearance and tough.

I'm going to grab the ruffstuff 3 link kit and put bends in the lowers to add clearance like they do. However I'm going with a mid arm setup. I think it will suite the lcg build type better.

Click to expand...

I wish I had the time to do my own kit, id like to have a Froehlich Crossmember, with nice, arched links that could bolt into the four OEM axle locations.

When I was at 4.5" and on Control Arm Drop Brackets, it drove AMAZING, and it was SMOOTH... bumps in the roads were just soaked right up. That's what I want out of my next build.

Tony_SS said:

I'm in the same boat... DD my junk and want some sort of long arm setup with underbelly armour. Don't throw anything at me, but what about Rough Country's setup? I've heard it's stout and they've made great upgrades to their joints. I just hate that you can't unbolt to center section for access.

I too would hate to loose any turn radius. I'll be at 4-4.5" height and running 32"s.

Click to expand...

Turn Radius is one of my priorities, I really want:
High Turn Radius, so Arched Links to allow for tire turning clearance
Preferably a Multi-Link Setup, I have an "aggressive" driving style.
preferably, a nice skid plate.

Froehlich really offers what I want, minus how it attaches to the axle.. And I want Rubber bushings on one end, and flex joints on the other. I have found that even Ruff Stuff Heims seem to burn out too quick for my liking.

I really, really Like the TNT Customs Cut, and I LOVE how quality the items I have used from them have been. I'm just worried about how well the TNT set would handle aggressive driving on the street. Things like Bump Steer, and Brake Dive. I know on a 4.5" multilink setup, I have had NO bumpsteer, and no more than expected brake dive. And I could run it without a stabilizer.. That's really what I want, and to be able to fit the damn tires without running tires that stick out half way from them vehicle....

Oh, and BTW, Having to drop the suspension to get to the transfer case isn't that big of a deal. You really aren't up there much. When you do the install, do yourself a favor and do a service drain(just the pan, which would only be about half the fluid) on the transmission, throw a new filter in it, throw 5 quarts in it; and then go on and do your SYE(if you haven't). Seal all that up, and you wouldn't have a need to get there for a long time, unless you break something!

in a 3 link, you really really really should have all hard joints. with rubber in that kind of setup youre gonna get a wobble, whether you notice it or not. if you dont want any NVH you are in the wrong vehicle. if you are set of rubber and hard, get a 4 link. i liked my RK four link setup, clayton's is very nice as well. full traction's is also awesome, and probably checks the most of your boxes.

rubber and hard joints? yes
linked setup? yes
skid plate? available
go fast approved? yes
skid independent of the links? yes

Belly armor is easy. Even a flat belly. I'm building crossmembers right now. Just using some 1/4" x 8" c channel. Easy scrap to find. No welding just grinding/clearancing. I'll throw up some pics next week when they are finished.

Those poly mounts would be easier with stiffeners in my opinion. You could weld them in more places and not have to rely on the fasteners as much. But that is fab. Just takes a bit more time. Not many kits have the bent lowers.

I get full lock each direction now. Just a hair of rub on the lowers. I don't have sway bars now. Pulled them both when I bought the jeep. It handles corners with ease. The rear end is a little soft for my liking but I'll be addressing that soon as well.

I would like to hear about your crossmembers Gordo. I've clocked my 231 and will eventually do midarms. I just need to build/buy a flat belly.

XJLI said:

in a 3 link, you really really really should have all hard joints. with rubber in that kind of setup youre gonna get a wobble, whether you notice it or not. if you dont want any NVH you are in the wrong vehicle. if you are set of rubber and hard, get a 4 link. i liked my RK four link setup, clayton's is very nice as well. full traction's is also awesome, and probably checks the most of your boxes.

rubber and hard joints? yes
linked setup? yes
skid plate? available
go fast approved? yes
skid independent of the links? yes

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I could deal with a poly bushing on one end, but I am fine using a four link also. The full traction kits do look appealing. I have seen a few mention that you can get arched, or bent lowers for extra tire clearance, do you know anything about that?

GordoSmasho said:

Belly armor is easy. Even a flat belly. I'm building crossmembers right now. Just using some 1/4" x 8" c channel. Easy scrap to find. No welding just grinding/clearancing. I'll throw up some pics next week when they are finished.

Those poly mounts would be easier with stiffeners in my opinion. You could weld them in more places and not have to rely on the fasteners as much. But that is fab. Just takes a bit more time. Not many kits have the bent lowers.

I get full lock each direction now. Just a hair of rub on the lowers. I don't have sway bars now. Pulled them both when I bought the jeep. It handles corners with ease. The rear end is a little soft for my liking but I'll be addressing that soon as well.

Click to expand...

Installing my Froehlich crossmember over HD Offroad stiffeners was a bit of work, but it was manageable. I just look at those Poly mounts as something that wouldn't fit over the stiffeners period...

But I've been looking at a lot of these kits that don't come with skids, it looks as though I could make a skid fairly easy for any of them... It looks like a lot of aftermarket skids would still work too

brianglawson said:

Can it drive "fast". I know that sounds crazy, but with current 3-Link, I can haul tail in my Jeep down mountain roads, and even without sways(on stiff, Rusty's 6.5" springs) I can really depend on my jeep to do what I want it to. Do you have any bump steer? Are you running their trackbar? I had their trackbar on my Jeep before, and I still have it, I fully intend on using it on my next Jeep. Super Stout, and at 4.5", with a stock steering angle, it's perfect. Do you have to run a steering stabilizer? How is brake dive? What about pounding down gravel roads?

Click to expand...

It handles ok for what it is. It rides great over washboard roads or whoops. Way better than my old short arm setup without drop brackets. I have a slight amount of bump steer but I'm pretty sure it's related to the Currie steering and not the control arms. I'm lifted about an inch more than Currie recommends with their setup which mimics the stock geometry. I have the driver's side tie rod flipped OTK. I'm running an RE double sheer trackbar and bracket that I already had. I have a steering stabilizer, but I ran without it for awhile with no issues. I don't notice any brake dive, but with stock brakes and 35's, brakes are nearly nonexistent anyway.:laugh: That's on my short list to address.

brianglawson said:

Oh, and BTW, Having to drop the suspension to get to the transfer case isn't that big of a deal. You really aren't up there much. When you do the install, do yourself a favor and do a service drain(just the pan, which would only be about half the fluid) on the transmission, throw a new filter in it, throw 5 quarts in it; and then go on and do your SYE(if you haven't). Seal all that up, and you wouldn't have a need to get there for a long time, unless you break something!

Click to expand...

This is what I did. Drained the trans and transfer case, replaced the fluid and changed trans filter during the install. I figured that would get me by for a couple of years anyway.

Poly 3-link long-arm kit with modified TnT belly skid. Arms are bent in and up for ground clearance and tire clearance. Only had to cut off the very front mounting bolt on the skid plate, still held on by stock crossmember bolts and a few frame sleeves, still just as as strong.

I drove it fast on fire roads between trails as much as possible. Took it like a champ, no issues.

Centermounted lower arms like the Ruff-rider race trucks of the '90's had. For go fast Raduis Arm it was stronger and gives the clearance one needed for large tires.

Of course you'd have to custom fab the mounts into a skid/crossmemeber and either bend the arms or re-do your lower axle mounts for the angle....but it's a bulletproof set up.