My 2000xj went back to stock today

Hi,
(this is going to be very long)
I've had a bunch of pm's reguarding my past post about going back to stock so I thought I would tell my story here. Mod feel free to move this post if necessary.

I bought a 2000xj new from the local dealer. Did some reading, learned about JeepJamborees and headed to Pennislvania to wheel. (I'm in MI). Before I went I used this site to help me select and install Mopar factory skids, r-rails,BFG at's and tow hooks. I went to PA and had a great time.

Then it all went down hill from there. Well, I got "addicted" to this site and my Jeep. I spent way to much time reading posts on this site and pretty soon I was infected with "inchitis" I deciecied to DO IT RIGHT the first time so I purchaced
RE3.5SuperDuty Packs, New Coils, Lower arms, Adj track bar, shocks 31Bfg's and the biggeeeee....................A Tom Woods SYE with a new shaft. Man my wife was pissed. But not to fear I told her, "I read lots of stuff on and all I have to do is slap on this stuff, get an alignment and I'm good to go." (yea, simplistic, I now know)
I really thought I had a handle on it. So I had a buddy come over and we put all the stuff on, lots of trips to the auto parts store and a few new tools later I was lifted. Well that was the easy part.
Next came a few weird noises, a strange pull, a leaky t-case, blown pinion bearings, (from poor angles) some front shaft vibes. and regearing for 31's would soon be on my 2-do list. (yes, I said regear, 31's make it feel like a slow pig in mud)
So I fixed a few of the noises, but couldn't solve my vibe problem, so I ran it all summer w/o the front d-shaft. Then the snow came, so, I rebuilt the shaft, and put new bearings in my t-case. Only to learn later that my front driveshaft angles were out of wack, no one mentioned that until after I rebuilt the shaft and replaced the bearings. So solving that problem would mean new upper adjustable control arms. So I read about that and asked some more questions. I finally decided that I could not be certian that upper arms would fix my front shaft vibes. I mean heck, I could put them on only to learn later that I should have done X or bought X. I guess my real bitch is that I didn't know what to expect, I only knew how to solve my problems after they happened and I just got tired of constantly solving problems.

In the end I had a 2000XJSport +3.25, fully skidded, hooks, sye, 31's r-rails, sye, front shaft that shook like a marble in a blender in 4wd. I spent a good deal of time driving my sons 87 Ford F-150 back and forth to work since my Jeep was in the garage in various stages of repair. I'm tired of driving an 87 while making payments on a 2000. Altho, the F-150 rides as smooth as glass, even with the fenders falling off.


So the moral of the story is;
1. Don't lift your daily driver, repairs will keep you from getting to work on time
2. Don't lift anything with a low pinion D-30
3. Learn about driveline angles first
4. Learn about how pinion angles affect caster
5. When people say "every Jeep reacts to lifting differently" believe it. Mine almost died from the experience.
6. Don't buy a lift kit that comes with shocks, most likely they wont be the right lenght. Learn about how to measure shocks, then go buy some, don't buy Monroes' I went through 4, they all leaked.
7. Plan on everything costing double what you thought, you can not lift a newer XJ for $200 bucks.
8. Get a FSM (if you don't know what that is, you shouldn't lift it)
9. Get a bunch of high quality torque wrenches, you'll need them.
10. Visit my for sale post on MichiganJeepers and buy my lift parts.


MJ ForSale post



As always, I appreciate all the help I have received from the users of this site. Now I just have to figure out how to shorten my rear drive shaft and I should be back to stock!!!

Stock Rocks my friends!!!!!!

Tom

"Stock rocks", now how many times have you heard a Jeep owner say that?? Not to take anything from the stock jeep design by any means. I just picture that statement coming from a jeep owner that wears a skirt!

It's true, every Jeep has it's own personality. You have listed several reliable parts you installed on your ride. Perhaps you did'nt do your homework as well as you thought? Lifting ANY vehicle is a commetment. Each with it's own personality and out come.

#6 is debatable. Several manufactures sell the correct shocks with thier lifts.

Sorry, not triyng to slam you. It simply sounds like you bit off more than you can chew.

Mojo Troll said:

"Stock rocks", now how many times have you heard a Jeep owner say that?? Not to take anything from the stock jeep design by any means. I just picture that statement coming from a jeep owner that wears a skirt!

It's true, every Jeep has it's own personality. You have listed several reliable parts you installed on your ride. Perhaps you did'nt do your homework as well as you thought? Lifting ANY vehicle is a commetment. Each with it's own personality and out come.

#6 is debatable. Several manufactures sell the correct shocks with thier lifts.

Sorry, not triyng to slam you. It simply sounds like you bit off more than you can chew.

Click to expand...

No slam taken, I agree with you. Lifting does require a commitment, but for me that commitment was too great and I got tired of chewing.

"Skirt" hey, just let me put down these groceries and I'll give you a smack. HAHAHA, I knew that would happen. That's o.k. I can take it.

Tom

"1. Don't lift your daily driver, repairs will keep you from getting to work on time"

How could you say that I feel like a wuss driving anything but my 8inch lifted cherokee. I was actually going to buy a cheap dd to make sure I made it to school after my wheeling adv. but to me I would rather be late but drive the jeep.

Yeah, you've gotta do it right.

You've also gotta realize that YOU'RE CUSTOMIZING! Sheesh, it's not gonna BE stock after you CUSTOMIZE it. Most of the guys that b*tch about their junk not working right after they lift it & etc forget this simple fact. It's no longer stock!

<rant>While I'm griping, what's with these guys that say, "what size shocks do I need on my 4.5" lift?". It's a CUSTOM lift, you need to cycle it & figure out what fits on YOUR rig at YOUR height.</rant>

I can relate.
I've spent a good deal more than I thought I would on my 2001. One thing I tried to do is to get EVERYTHING ready for a particular mod before I started. That way, my "downtime" was kept to a minimum. I also did a good bit of research and questioning as to how one mod was going to affect others.
I've installed a large lift (RE 5.5"), SYE, rockers, bumpers, skids, winch, BOTH axles, gears, and more on my daily driver. Was it expensive? YEP! Was it worth it? ABSOLUTELY! It has a few squeeks, but it handles as well and accelerates BETTER than it did new! It's certainly stronger and more capable.
A stock XJ is still a ton of fun, though!

well i understand your frustration.. but i cant help but think you were well past the half-way point to workin out the bugs, where its a shorter trip to continue on then to turn back... i too jumped in to this with both feet and spent too much money.. but i have too much work into it all to just say F it.. but the ongoing persisting problems are the ones that really get you pissed... good luck with controling your inchitis when it returns.. chalk it all up as an incredible learning experience and a hard lesson learned..
mike
pm'd ya

Too much at once, this stuff truly is a hassle. I started off with just a Skyjacker 3" lift that I had researched a little (didn't know about this site at the time or any others). When I got to the store to buy it, they said I could get another 2" for only an extra $100 (shackle & spacer). I thought, that's a pretty good deal and they assured me it would all work well. After putting the lift on it rode AWFUL. While putting it on, I couldn't even remove one of my leaf-spring bolts so I had to put the AAL on with the springs on the vehicle. While putting on the AAL's, I noticed that the new spring pins wouldn't fit in the hole, so I tried to drill out the hole. Trashed a drill bit and then got the right size pins from the local 4wd shop. Then I noticed that I didn't have any spring clamps like I used to, and my leaves would fan out a little. Had to buy Rancho clamps (which limit flex and aren't as good as the stock clamps). My rear driveshaft yoke ears hit while braking, so then came the t-case drop. The stud wouldn't come out, had to have somebody weld a nut onto it to get it out. Then one of the nuts inside the frame rail that holds the crossmember stripped, I figured 3 strong bolts were enough and left it . Then came the death wobble because the control arms that came with the lift were for a 3" lift, not a 5" and evidently it was off enough. Then I noticed the rear brake line wasn't long enough, so had to buy an aftermarket longer brake line. Then noticed that bump steer was very bad and learned the "trac-bar relocation bracket" that came with the lift was crap. Took that off, helped, but was still awful. Then figured out that the axle was no longer centered, so bought an RE adjustable trac-bar. While putting it on, the bolt wouldn't fit through the stock frame-end hole. Had to have that drilled out by a shop, even though no one mentioned it when I bought it. Hitting bumps was a jolting experience, turns out that the new shackles hit the rear bumper bolts and would suddenly stop causing the jeep to be very jumpy on bumps. Needless to say, it took me over a year of troubleshooting in my free time to get the lift dialed in perfectly. That was only for the lift!!! I've done more lifts and different mods and different cherokees since and they're easier after the first time, but the learning curve is expensive and time-consuming.

00XJ,

Thanks so much for your insight. I think a lot of folks on this board have gone through something similar from the reading I've done. There will be a lot of people arguing with your comments, and ranting about shock length questions, etc. The fact that you are stating YOUR experience is the important thing here. I really appreciate you posting this. A lot of folks have told me to just lift the XJ and see what happens, but I have no interest in that. As to the Jeep not being stock after a lift...of course not, but for the price of a KIT the damn thing should work correctly. Is it wrong to think like that? Why do folks buy lift kits then? I for one am not interesting in fabricating a bunch of custom parts in my garage...and yes, I could.

Thanks again 00XJ...I'll keep myself stock.

pancake said:

00XJ,

A lot of folks have told me to just lift the XJ and see what happens, but I have no interest in that. As to the Jeep not being stock after a lift...of course not, but for the price of a KIT the damn thing should work correctly. Is it wrong to think like that? Why do folks buy lift kits then?

Click to expand...

Interesting question...
When the manufacturers put "kits" together, they're not designed to be "all-inclusive". For instance, an RE 3.5" kit is a fine lift. But I would not even CONSIDER running that lift without an SYE on a '97+ XJ. There's too many vibes on the newer ones with even small lifts. The lift kits are JUST the lift. The lift WILL affect other areas, however. (vibes, driveshafts, etc.) And it's different from one Jeep to another. I ran a 4.5" lift with short arms for a little while. While this was tolerable, it was MUCH better after I installed the 5.5" lift with the CA drop brackets. The ride was almost back to stock.
It also depends on what you're used to. If I was trying to compare the ride or noise level of my lifted XJ to my wife's ZJ, I'd be constantly frustrated, as this is NEVER going to happen. I spent years driving a lifted CJ, so the XJ rides better even lifted. Can you get a lifted XJ to ride like stock? I think mine's really close, but probably not. It's better than stock in many ways, though.

Sheesh billR sound like you stole my rig! I'll chime in here and say that if I had it to do over again, no matter if you start by going to 5+ or creep your way up there, I would NOT lift my DD again. I keep thinking how much more I'd have completed and how much more actual wheeling would get done if I didn't have to complete everything in one day.

P

l can see where you are coming from,lhave 99,6in lift,frt@rear arbs,home made bumpers,rock rails,oba,with ac,l am always trying new ideas,take time an less money for me l cant aford to pay someone else,but it is a very learning experiance

trailrunner said:

l can see where you are coming from,lhave 99,6in lift,frt@rear arbs,home made bumpers,rock rails,oba,with ac,l am always trying new ideas,take time an less money for me l cant aford to pay someone else,but it is a very learning experiance

Click to expand...

Ok, you guys are scaring me! My stock 93 XJ rides like crap! I'm pretty sure it needs new springs so I figure I'll kill 2 birds with one stone and do a RE 3" lift. It comes with new lower control arm so I figure that should take care of the front end. I'm also going to get a transfer case drop, for the money, it's good insurance against vibes. The kit comes with the rear brake line and I'll end up getting TJ lines for the front. The kit doesn't come with shocks so I'll most likely get Edelbrock IAS shocks. I'll probably also go with 31X10.50 Trxus MT's for the tires, I really like the ones on my friends CJ-8. From what I've read here, the consensus is that it will improve the ride, hell anything would. I'm new to this and it will be my first lift so what am I getting into? This is my daily driver so what should I expect, am I going to screw it up or help the ride? Also, I'm not clear on the adj trackbar, is it a necessicty with a 3" lift on a 93? Like I said, I'm wanting to improve the ride and make it look good, but I'm getting kinda worried now.
Mike Harris

pancake said:

00XJ,

Thanks so much for your insight. I think a lot of folks on this board have gone through something similar from the reading I've done. There will be a lot of people arguing with your comments, and ranting about shock length questions, etc. The fact that you are stating YOUR experience is the important thing here. I really appreciate you posting this. A lot of folks have told me to just lift the XJ and see what happens, but I have no interest in that. As to the Jeep not being stock after a lift...of course not, but for the price of a KIT the damn thing should work correctly. Is it wrong to think like that? Why do folks buy lift kits then? I for one am not interesting in fabricating a bunch of custom parts in my garage...and yes, I could.

Thanks again 00XJ...I'll keep myself stock.

Click to expand...

You buy a lift kit to save yourself the time having to piece eveything together and the money having custom spring and such made. Lift kits DO NOT promise stock handling or reliability - EVER. Sure they strive to attain the best handing possible and people keep coming up with ingenious ways of doing that like drop brackets, long arms, and multi-link suspension. But those are just fixes for what lifting really does to a vehicle - it ruins the stock geometery. I lifted my daily driver. it was a great experience. I tried to do it over a long weekend but I knew I might run into trouble - which I did - and it ended up sitting in the drive way for a week. I planned for that though and I would do it again.

I just got my driveshafts back on and took her for a spin. Turns out I didn't have to shorten my rear shaft, Thanks Tom Wood's for the help.

Wow, I forgot what a vibe free-full-time 4wd system felt like. I like, it's smooth and fully functional.
Jeep on Brother.

I appreciate all the comments and pm's this thread has genorated. I hope you see that I am not complaining about the quality of lift kits or inferior parts. Everything I bought was good quality and worked as advertised. I think basalt51 said it best when he said lift kits,"ruin the stock geometery." and I found that engineering a lift system that functioned for my daily driver and weekend trail rider, to be far beyond my budget and patients.

If you have lifted your XJ and it worked then I am glad for you. Lifted Xjs are very cool, when I had my lift on I used to feel sorry for the stockers.
I just want all the "newbees" to realize that it is a complicated task at the very least, and it may not go as easy as some people on this board make it out to be. I consider my self to be pretty mechanicaly inclined and have done some fairly complicated tasks, I think everyone needs to realize that lifting your Xj can quickly become complicated. I would say that one should understand driveline angles and how lifts effect caster/pinion measurements, before they even add a spacer. Read up, do lot's of searches, and remeber Jeep means;
Just Empty Every Pocket, (especially when lifted).

Later Gater,


Tom
(flame suit, getting weaker,need water,,,,,ugh)

Very well said,I wished it had worked out for you.One more point,web wheeling is "good" but there still is no substitute for hands on,going with other people and their rigs/lifts/parts/comments/praises/complaints is "priceless".

00XJ,

It's great to see you can take one on the chin and laugh. It's post like this that make great.

I can certainly see where dumping money into a suspension system that you were'nt happy with the outcome would get very frustrating. Especially on a DD vehicle you are still making payments on.

This is a great reference for future daily driver lifts. Do your homework and have a ride to work lined out on Monday morning. You never know whats going to come up once your crawl underneath a Jeep and start turning wrenches eace:

I know what you mean... as things are a chain reaction of sorts... but....... don't give up all the way!! By that I mean, retain your rock rails, your skids and tow hooks and stuff, as their presence will not affect your drive quality and will still allow you to have some fun! Stock XJ with additional armour can do a lot keep/slap on 235's (even 225's) of the AT flavour (BFG maybe) and you're on your way to some pleasurable times.

Kejtar

00xj said:

If you have lifted your XJ and it worked then I am glad for you. Lifted Xjs are very cool, when I had my lift on I used to feel sorry for the stockers. I just want all the "newbees" to realize that it is a complicated task at the very least, and it may not go as easy as some people on this board make it out to be. I consider myself to be pretty mechanicaly inclined and have done some fairly complicated tasks, I think everyone needs to realize that lifting your Xj can quickly become complicated.

Click to expand...

Every once in awhile I'll get in over my head and spend a bunch of money on something that seems cool at the time ... then you get into it and find out it's not as satisfying as it appears on the surface.

It's been costly to restore my XJ ... especially since I have 153K miles and started performing surgery on it----I considered it a "high risk" ... "low return" ... "let's see what happens" ... kinda venture.

You really gotta love your XJ ... it's the first vehicle I've owned over 5 years.

The reality is you will spend a bunch of money on the "lift kit" and "recommended components" ... and then you'll need to spend a bunch more due to stress imposed on other affected parts----not including the normal maintenance required for a DD.

And this is on a vehicle that is currently on DC's obsolete list.

There is a cost associated with having something unique ... the irony here is there's only the few that will ever take notice.


Must be pathological.

That is my favorite line "JEEP - Just Empty Every Pocket". Lifting an XJ is definately a commitment and it is not for everybody. It takes alot of planning, time, and money. I too put alot of research into mine knowing every XJ reacts different to lifts because it is my daily driver. I got away fairly lucky with my 6.5" lift. I figured the SYE into the lift as I tell everyone that asks me that question "do I need a SYE?" YES! The only issue I have now is a slight front driveline vibe I am going to take care of with my adjustable UCA's.

My lift started as a 2" spacer and block lift for about $100.00 just to "test the waters" on my '99. Right off the bat, I got rear driveline vibes (the block was tapered to supposedly compensate for this) and shocks and brake lines limited flex. So I got the TC lowering kit (which helped but didn't eliminate) and longer brake lines. Then I figured, since I still have vibes and need to do a SYE, I'm going bigger. I added 4.5" coils and leaf packs to the 2" spacer and block setup, upper and lower adjustable control arms, heavy duty adjustable track bar and bracket, sway bar quick disco's, longer shocks (again), longer brake lines (again), new rims, bigger 32" tires (should've went with 33's), and a whole weekend. Everything is from Rusty's Offroad except the SYE (RE), quick disco's (JKS), tires (BFG) and rims (American Racing). Now, as I said above, the only thing I have is a slight driveline vibe that is fixeable. Would I do it again? Probably. I really like how it turned out. It is, however, one of those things that once you start, you have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to finish it.