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  #481  
Old July 27th, 2019, 23:16
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Nimrod Nimrod is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

For my 8.25 rear I just installed some Dorman 610449 studs. Dorman’s got all the dimensions on its website, as does RockAuto.
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  #482  
Old August 9th, 2019, 23:39
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Well, ended up doing the extended wheels studs, but it wasnít nearly as straightforward as Iíd hoped.

Had some friends in town so I took them up on a day trip into the hills and got a little dirty.






Rental JL did fine, but if youíre looking to buy one of these: go Rubicon. No lockers on the Sport model wasnít great. It was a little crazy watching the brakes auto apply corner by corner and the power transfer back and forth back between wheels as traction control tries to help out, but itís still not the right setup though.

Anyways, we came down the hill and weíre headed back into town after 20 miles of dirt road and suddenly I realize Iím pulling hard right ever time Iím on the brakes. We pause to be sure I didnít rupture a brake line or have a tire going flat, but nothing I can see. Triple check Iím not in 4wd by rolling forward and back a few times. Nothing obvious. Keep driving.

About a mile from my house I start smelling brakes. Get Ďer home hop out and Iím smelling brakes strongly on the left front. Sure enough, that corner is cooking and 600 degrees hotter than the others.




Apparently I totally faded front left which is why it was pulling right.

Pull it apart and try to drive the caliper pistons in (this is a Teves WJ setup by the way). One piston slides smoothly the other is frozen and barely moving. Well, guess I found the issue. I call around to see if I can find a rebuild kit (no), but the Napa in town does have rebuilt calipers. Since these were just junkyard parts I decide to do both sides and upgrade the later WJ Akebonos (believe 2002 is the split so I had them spec calipers for an 04 and that was right).

Should just bolt on right?




Wrong. Iím running 15Ē wheels. Turns out the Akebonos have just enough extra meat in the caliper body that Iím rubbing when I wasnít prior. Bah. Canít even take them back and stick with Teves now since I marred the calipers.




I did check fitment as I started the install process, but it seems I had just enough slack in my wheel stud holes that I fooled myself. Once I torqued the wheels it pulled the rim into contact, actually squeezed the caliper floating part against the rotor too. See rub marks on the rotor perimeter.




I only moved a few feet before I realizing it was wrong. Bíah!! Looks like itís time for the longer wheel studs after all. While I could shave on the body of the Akebonoís I really wasnít into it so that means going back to a bit more wheel spacer. Thatís ok. I wanted to shove my tires out to the limits of the new fender flares anyways.

So digging into the WJ spec studs (thanks for the references Nimrod!) these studs claim they use a 0.627Ē knurl. In measuring my parts, I was finding numbers in the 0.620 to 0.624 range but maybe they compressed as bit on install. Note, this is a little confusing since my WJ conversion should be using TJ unit bearings and TJ wheel studs are 0.615Ē knurl and a bit under 1.5Ē long. My studs are 1 15/16Ē long and seem to match WJ specs. That means Iím not 100% sure what wheel studs I was starting with. Maybe itís an aftermarket unit bearing thing or maybe itís a difference in TJ years for the specs I was checkingÖ Not sure.

Either way, I didnít find anything off the shelf easily available in a 0.627Ē and I wanted studs closer to the 3Ē range. I ended up buying 4 sets of ARP 100-7703.https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7703

Figured the 0.625Ē knurl was close enough, shoulder length was right, and theyíre 1/2-20 pitch by 3.5Ē under head length.

Old stud knocked out ok, but I did need to trim my welded on knuckle spacer from the original WJ conversion. Note the OEM style studs are BARELY are removable vs the body of the unit bearing.




The new ones wonít go back in. The head is just a bit bigger and hangs up in pretty much the same place the old studs rub on removal.




In looking at the clearances closer this interference actually occurs for two reason. The head of the stud is slightly large diameter but it also maters that the splined knurl on the ARPs is full length. That means they have to be inserted straighter with more of the head portion protruding. That also drives the head toward the unit bearing shell which is tapering outward.



I debated disassembling the unit bearings since it seems likely the studs were originally pressed into the hub bare. That said, from what Iíve read, unit bearings arenít intended as serviceable items and if youíre crooked at all in the attempt to press the thing apart you destroy the bearing. Mine are less than a year old so I wasnít excited about that.

Eventuallyóthough after some careful eyeballingóI decided to suck it up and just shave on my brand new wheel studs.




Shaved bits were painted for rust avoidance. The good news is I was able to keep at least part of the shoulder all the way around so they still clamp down evenly.
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  #483  
Old August 10th, 2019, 12:49
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Install from here wasn’t too bad, albeit HOT DAMN that took some gusto to pull these home. I used a 19 mm impact socket as my spacer.






It works, but I had an 1,000 ft lb impact gun set on kill and it still took a bit. Definitely need to keep everything well lubed with antiseize for this job. Note shown, but I also used a 1/2” fender washer to protect the hub after the first hole when I noticed it slightly marring. It kinda burnished some of the gold off, but the integrity of the threads is sound.

Sacrificial lug nut was sacrificed. I had to run a 1/2-20 tap through this after almost every stud was set and after every pull the nut was so hot as to barely be touchable.

[img width=800 height=600]https://sites.google.com/site/frijoleels1fc/XJWheelStuds12.jpg[/img]


Wheel spacers were something I had lying around for my Rx7 5x4.5 and 1” thick. It was originally the style with its own lugs but I’m not really into that if I can avoid it. I did have to open up the bores a bit but thankfully my baby lathe was just big enough.






Much better.




And it all clears. I did have to cut off the ends of my lug nuts to turn them in into open end lugs and had to re-tap those as well. Having a little gold peeking out is gangster, right?

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  #484  
Old August 10th, 2019, 14:46
RCP Phx RCP Phx is online now
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I was going to ask what you were doing this for?
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  #485  
Old August 10th, 2019, 21:38
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
I was going to ask what you were doing this for?
Short version: WJ Teves calipers can fit some 15" wheelsl with a tiny spacer. WJ Akebono's are physically larger (I never knew this) so had to jump to a 1" spacer and extended wheel studs.
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  #486  
Old August 13th, 2019, 15:27
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

For what it's worth, in hindsight I should have used anti-seize on the stud splines as well. I suspect they might have pulled easier and no damn way were these going to spin.
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  #487  
Old August 13th, 2019, 17:20
whitexj98 whitexj98 is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

My 15s clear the akebones with no spacers but they are steel wheels.
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  #488  
Old August 27th, 2019, 15:37
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Jeep has a leaking power steering problem thatís been kicking my ass so thought Iíd post up about it.

99% sure I traced it to a failed o-ring between the reservoir and the PS pump. Tracked down the size online (3mm wide, 14 mm ID) and ordered some viton parts from McMaster (P/N 9263K722). Triple checked fluid compatibility so thatís fine.

Getting the pump out can be done in situ.




Little weird, it kinda looks like the o-ring was riding out toward the outermost lip, looking at the rub mark.




Fresh oil rings (high pressure shears on install)




Looks like it seats fineÖ




Öso I throw it back together. Itís perfect for like two days then, it starts dribbling on my driveway again.

Bíah, pull it apart a second time. Letís take a closer look. Pump body looks fine, nothing coming out the back.




There is a tiny scratch mark in the pump bore. Could that be it?




Sand it out to be sure.




Reinstall with a new HP o-ring (again), reservoir o-ring is perfect so I use it again. Iím good for 1 day, then it pukes as bad as it ever has. Literally dumps about the full reservoir on the ground overnight. You gotta be kidding me!

Pull it apart for the 3rd time. Inspect the heck out of the reservoir. Looks fine, only wet marks are all from that o-ring area. Itís only been a couple days so the dribble trail is obvious.




Iím starring at this thing and kinda stumped. After one more look over I realize the tapered clamp bits that pull the reservoir against the body of the pump have gotten a bit loose. Clamp those down a bit (overdid it in this shot but you get the idea).




I even experiment whether I could stack two o-rings on there (Answer: no, it doesnít fit and even trying this says Iím running out of ideas).




Back together (again). Good for two days (again). Now leaking (again). Itís not as bad a leak as prior, leaves a spot about the size of a softball every half day or so...

WTF man. Iím serious ready to just replace the whole damn thing but itís annoys me not to be able to solve a simple problem. Any ideas appreciatedÖ

-Joel
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  #489  
Old August 27th, 2019, 15:59
Taco_Night Taco_Night is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I went through the same damn problem on my 96. I chased that leak for a month or more. Bought new o-rings, bought a couple of new reservoirs, etc.. Finally bit the bullet and bought a whole new pump and reservoir. Hasn't leaked a drop since.

Like you, I couldn't figure out where the leak was coming from exactly, just that it was in the area where the two (pump/res) meet.

I hope you find the leak, I still have my old one as a spare. Would be nice to fix it!
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  #490  
Old August 28th, 2019, 07:06
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Mild steel will wear much better than aluminum especially in a skid plate application. Aluminum will also stick to rocks more were steel will slide.

Very very nice fab work on it. You should sell them I think lots of guys will buy them for the coolness factor
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  #491  
Old August 28th, 2019, 13:45
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XJEEPER XJEEPER is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frijolee View Post

Wheel spacers were something I had lying around for my Rx7 5x4.5 and 1Ē thick. It was originally the style with its own lugs but Iím not really into that if I can avoid it.
I've run 1.25" bolt-on billet wheel adapters for over 15 yrs on 2 different XJ's with zero issues. What exactly are you trying to avoid by using a longer stud and slip-on spacers?

Seems to me you've added risk of component failure.
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  #492  
Old August 28th, 2019, 14:11
Jim Malcolm Jim Malcolm is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Try a plain ol' nitrile/Buna-N o-ring. Viton is a horrible material quite frankly, except where there's no other choice due to temperature or chemical compatibility.
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  #493  
Old August 28th, 2019, 14:14
freerider15 freerider15 is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I went through several reservoirs, trying everything from lots of different o-rings (ordered just like you did), RTV, mutliple o-rings, etc...all still leaked. Finally replaced the pump and res, and it went away.

That being said, should I even run into that problem again...i'll either:

1.) Tap the hole and run an adapter to AN, and do a remote mount res.
2.) Just buy a PSC pump and do the same thing

It's a piss poor design really.
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  #494  
Old August 28th, 2019, 15:46
frijolee frijolee is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan03 View Post
Mild steel will wear much better than aluminum especially in a skid plate application. Aluminum will also stick to rocks more were steel will slide.

Very very nice fab work on it. You should sell them I think lots of guys will buy them for the coolness factor
It's all compromises. Weight is the biggest one for steel. With aluminum being 1/3 the density I can run 1.5x thicker aluminum while be half the weight of an equivalent bit of steel. Young's modulus (bending elasticity) of aluminum is also about 1/3 that of steel but since bending is a function of thickness^3, the 1.5x thick scenario above actually stronger than steel against bending. If you jump to 2x thickness it gains even more.

In my case I was more concerned with preventing damage than ability to slide on rocks (but the point about being less slippery is valid). If you wanted the best of all things, aluminum armor skinned in some replaceable UHMW would be pretty trick. I've seen that on a few Ultra4 rigs.

FWIW, material costs were higher with aluminum than most aftermarket skids retail for complete and out the door. As such, I suspect that price would be the issue that would determine viability at retail. I own a business selling car parts on the side already (www.roninspeedworks.com) but doing Jeep stuff would be a big jump from our current markets.

I do think the aluminum armor has some coolness factor, but I built them for performance and they've work damn well for what I need. It's certainly different so I thought folks might get a kick out of it... Glad you did.

I'm glad to see more folks thinking through the compromises of material choices. Stinkyfab's High Roller WJ steering comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJEEPER View Post
I've run 1.25" bolt-on billet wheel adapters for over 15 yrs on 2 different XJ's with zero issues. What exactly are you trying to avoid by using a longer stud and slip-on spacers?

Seems to me you've added risk of component failure.
Indirect load paths suck. Are bolt on spacers sufficient? Maybe, but it’s still a crap design. For one of the most famous examples I can think of, consider the 1981 Hyatt Regency walkway collapse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=VnvGwFegbC8

No way I’ve made it weaker going direct, so why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Malcolm View Post
Try a plain ol' nitrile/Buna-N o-ring. Viton is a horrible material quite frankly, except where there's no other choice due to temperature or chemical compatibility.
Got any more detail on that? I was under the impression we mostly cared about service conditions and durometer... I don’t have nitrile in the right size at the moment, but it's probably worth a try.
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  #495  
Old August 28th, 2019, 19:01
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Anak Anak is offline
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Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

WRT the PS leak, how is the tank looking? Particularly with regard to compression from the O-rings?

I put a new PSC pump and reservoir (complete assemly, all new parts, not a rebuild) on my '96 and it was good for a year, then it started leaking at the reservoir. My research was probably the same as yours. I used Amazon's 14mm x 3mm o-rings (P/N B005RUSZ9G). That has held up fine so far. Knock on wood. Those were Viton.

What I think happens is that the plastic nipple on the tank compresses and the seal is lost.

Without going back through your build thread, it seems I have seen a lathe in your shop. If so, could you turn a thinwall sleeve to put inside the nipple and provide support for that o-ring from the inside? It probably needs to be thin to not mess up the flow characteristics of the whole pump/reservoir assembly. Or perhaps just try a different reservoir.
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