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  #46  
Old April 4th, 2011, 21:01
twodoorXJ twodoorXJ is offline
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

Swap in a b18 out of a honda. Those ricer guys, can get an easy 300hp, and its just a couple of stickers away.
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  #47  
Old April 4th, 2011, 21:49
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by YELLAHEEP View Post
Bob...... I'm right there with ya. I'd really like to do the 5.2 in the BOR rig as well. After seeing the intense amount of work John Bjorum and FrankZ put into making their GM powerplants work..... I'm of the impression the 5.2 would be a bit easier with all the Mopar compatibility. I'm no expert though....

If I could find someplace that had ready-made motor mounts and a wiring schematic all sorted out...... I'd be doing the swap in a hurry....
Yella,

As you know the wiring won't be too much of a problem for me. I could see how that could be a pretty big problem for most though. I think keeping it Chryco would help out a lot. A set of motor mounts already made up would be pretty nice, but I think I can swing that too. It looks as though if the deal goes through on the 5.2L I will be starting this swap in a few weeks. Hopefully I'll have it done in time to make a trip out west this year.

B
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  #48  
Old April 4th, 2011, 21:54
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by ridgerunner97 View Post
Keep it Chrysler, everyone and their uncle is stuffing chevy motors, and LS Series smallblock's in anything with wheels be different The 5.2 and 5.9 Magnum motors will make serious horsepower and torque. A simple port and polish job, some headers, and a free flowing exhaust will make a good difference on the butt dyno. Start screwing around with a better flowing throttle body, some more aggressive head work, a cam, and oh say a factory Dakota 5.9R/T computer you can start getting some fairly interesting results. Take it to the next step and get a stroker kit from Hughes Engines or one of the other vendor's for the Magnum V8 and you can quickly go into the land of "holy shit this thing is scary fast in a half ton truck let alone an XJ!"
I'm pretty sure the stock 5.2L would satisfy me at least for a while. I think 300+ hp would simply be a set of aluminum heads and a cam swap away if I ever tire of the stock output. But that would be another thread for another day (or year).

B
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  #49  
Old April 5th, 2011, 05:48
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by Bloose View Post
My main question is, has anyone either done or considered doing a 5.2L (318 Magnum) swap into the Cherokee. It seems like such a natural fit as they came in the Grands. Putting a Chryco motor in my Jeep would really help out in the emissions department as I still need to do that here in WI. They no longer do tail pipe testing and only plug into the OBD2 port. So running a Chryco computer from some '98 would keep me from having to jump through hoops. Also, keeping the 241OR t-case that I paid a kings ransom for is high on my list and running a Jeep trans would make keeping it a reality.

Is a 5.2L swap as attractive as it appears to me? I really don't want to get into a discussion about the $$ to HP reward of such a swap because increasing the HP of any V8 is a much simpler proposition than on any I6. V8's from any of the big 3 enjoy immense aftermarket support where the 4.0L enjoys some but not to the extent of the V8's and not at the low prices. I'm more concerned about if there is a real reason no one does these swaps, i.e. the motors won't fit, the trans is too big, or some other situation I'm not seeing.

If I could do any swap I wanted I'd run a 5.0L Ford V8 in there. They are small, light, and nearly as cheap to build as a SBC. The make tremendous power for their physical size and are extremely reliable. Not to mention that I have several 5.0L's laying around, one of which is freshly rebuilt. I also have a good AOD I could use. The AOD is nice because it has O.D. yet doesn't require a computer. The problem is, no one make an adapter to mate a Jeep T-case to the AOD. Also, emissions would be a problem as it is not a Chryco product. The FI I have for the 5.0L is from a '90 further complicating the emissions situation.

I know lots of guys have done the LS swaps but I'm not too interested in that because of the price of admission. If I had or could get a complete LS for cheap I'd consider it but there are far more costs involved with the LS swaps.

B-loose
You know how I feel about my LS, so I won’t try (too hard) to talk you out of the Mopar swap. I am fairly ignorant in the emissions department, as we don’t have it here. But, from what I read a lot people do the LS swaps because of the ease of passing the test. If all they do is plug into the OBDII port it won’t matter as long as it reads clean, right?

I see the earlier 5.3L engines pretty cheap around here. Of course there is an adapter to make your 241OR work, but it’s kind of pricey. Or you could sell the 241OR and use a 5.3L/4L60e/NP241 all from the same donor. If I were to do it again I would pull the engine, tranny and t-case from the same vehicle, instead of adapting my 231J to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloose View Post
But... 190HP and 235 lb ft of torque is even more doggy!

A stroker will do it but when your done you still have a rough running POS that needs premium fuel, and weighs more than the V8.
B
Your picking a fight here, ask me how I know. Actually, I’m surprised you only got one response. I guess it’s still early in the discussion

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Originally Posted by Bloose View Post
HP isn't THE most important factor here. It is important but I'm looking for a balance of HP, fuel economy, and cost to do the swap.
B
Using fuel economy for a reason to do the swap is a joke really. Yeah, you could baby it and get 18 mpg, but who is going to do that? I have been trying to baby my way through tank of gas for over a year to see what I could get for mpg’s; I haven’t been successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YELLAHEEP View Post
Bob...... I'm right there with ya. I'd really like to do the 5.2 in the BOR rig as well. After seeing the intense amount of work John Bjorum and FrankZ put into making their GM powerplants work..... I'm of the impression the 5.2 would be a bit easier with all the Mopar compatibility. I'm no expert though....
Much like my swap, the reason for the intense amount of work had a lot to do with timing. There was very little aftermarket/web-forum support when these were done. It's pretty much cake these days.
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  #50  
Old April 5th, 2011, 06:25
Corprin Corprin is offline
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by John D View Post
Using fuel economy for a reason to do the swap is a joke really. Yeah, you could baby it and get 18 mpg, but who is going to do that? I have been trying to baby my way through tank of gas for over a year to see what I could get for mpg’s; I haven’t been successful.
That all depends on which motor you are planning on swapping into the XJ. The main motivating factor for the swap I am planning is fuel economy, secondary is, because it's there. Then again, I am not delusional about a SBx getting better mileage than the 4.0, I am dropping two cylinders and adding a different fuel. Right now it's a toss-up between a the drive train out of a KJ CRD (love my 31mpg) or an Isuzu 4BD1T/4L60E/XXX.

OP - I know little about the later generations of mopar, but in the case of the early generations I do know a bit. Are the exhaust studs on the heads, and port locations, the same on the 60's SBC's? The A-body was only designed for the slant-six, so Chrysler had to get creative when stuffing in V8's to keep up with GM and FoMoCo. The headers on my old 64 Barracuda/318 were an interesting design to clear the engine bay brake/steering, and frame, and may fit well in an XJ bay.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DOU-D450-R/?rtype=10

Last edited by Corprin; April 5th, 2011 at 06:33.
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  #51  
Old April 5th, 2011, 08:55
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by John D View Post
You know how I feel about my LS, so I wonít try (too hard) to talk you out of the Mopar swap. I am fairly ignorant in the emissions department, as we donít have it here. But, from what I read a lot people do the LS swaps because of the ease of passing the test. If all they do is plug into the OBDII port it wonít matter as long as it reads clean, right?

Unfortunately I believe not only will it have to read clean be it will need to be from a vehicle at least as new as 1998. For a LS motor that wouldn't be a problem, but for a 5.0L it would be. The 5.0L is out for now though so that's not an issue. I'm not positive what their reaction would be if the motor was from another manufacturer or from a truck.

I see the earlier 5.3L engines pretty cheap around here. Of course there is an adapter to make your 241OR work, but itís kind of pricey. Or you could sell the 241OR and use a 5.3L/4L60e/NP241 all from the same donor. If I were to do it again I would pull the engine, tranny and t-case from the same vehicle, instead of adapting my 231J to work.


A GM 241 would be fine. 4:1 low is nice but it's not really the night and day difference I thought it would be. I really went to the 241OR for strength reasons over the 242 I had. After breaking the 4th 242 I was ready to move on just as I am now with my motor.


Your picking a fight here, ask me how I know. Actually, Iím surprised you only got one response. I guess itís still early in the discussion

Yes I know. I'm just really frustrated at this point with my 4.0L's. I know so many people have had great luck with them but I have not. Plus, since I have towed with this XJ since new power has been a bigger issue for me since new than it would be for most people. Besides the lack of HP for towing I have had a misfire nearly since the Jeep was new. At first it was only after heat soak which the dealer could never remedy, for the last few years it's been pretty constant, and my wife's '01 has the same issue. As a mater of fact, that problem along with a CD player problem is how I found way back in '99.


Using fuel economy for a reason to do the swap is a joke really. Yeah, you could baby it and get 18 mpg, but who is going to do that? I have been trying to baby my way through tank of gas for over a year to see what I could get for mpgís; I havenít been successful.

Fuel economy certainly isn't the reason for the swap but it is the reason I'd prefer to keep the motor smaller than larger. I'd assume a 5.2L would get better mileage than a 5.9L so for me it seems like a better choice. The cool part is that if the 5.2L doesn't do the trick some day down the road a 5.9L could easily be swapped in. But I don't foresee that being an issue.

Much like my swap, the reason for the intense amount of work had a lot to do with timing. There was very little aftermarket/web-forum support when these were done. It's pretty much cake these days.
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  #52  
Old April 5th, 2011, 09:00
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by Corprin View Post
That all depends on which motor you are planning on swapping into the XJ. The main motivating factor for the swap I am planning is fuel economy, secondary is, because it's there. Then again, I am not delusional about a SBx getting better mileage than the 4.0, I am dropping two cylinders and adding a different fuel. Right now it's a toss-up between a the drive train out of a KJ CRD (love my 31mpg) or an Isuzu 4BD1T/4L60E/XXX.

OP - I know little about the later generations of mopar, but in the case of the early generations I do know a bit. Are the exhaust studs on the heads, and port locations, the same on the 60's SBC's? The A-body was only designed for the slant-six, so Chrysler had to get creative when stuffing in V8's to keep up with GM and FoMoCo. The headers on my old 64 Barracuda/318 were an interesting design to clear the engine bay brake/steering, and frame, and may fit well in an XJ bay.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DOU-D450-R/?rtype=10
Thanks for the link. If possible I'd like to stay with some short tube headers. I guess on the TJ swaps they use a block hugger style shorty header. If that works on the TJ I don't see why it wouldn't work on the XJ. We'll see once I get the motor in place. The nice thing about Summit though is I can order what ever I want and if it doesn't fit they'll take them back no questions asked, return shipping is all it would cost. So if block huggers don't work I'd give these a shot. Worst case is I'd make my own. I made a set for my '68 and I vowed to never do it again, but you do what you have to.

B
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  #53  
Old April 5th, 2011, 09:08
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

Super cool Idea DO IT!



I Think I'd do that 5.9L but 5.2 would be nice too.
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  #54  
Old April 5th, 2011, 09:15
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

Which ever way you decide to go, it's probably well worth a trip to the check station to find out what will be required to pass. It might not hurt to be friendly with them before you go anyway All of the information should be available from them or a state/county website.
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  #55  
Old April 5th, 2011, 09:20
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Gaius Gaius is offline
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

Long tube headers will definitely not work, shorties might since they amount to a stock a-pipe, but likely don't have the room side-to-side. Stock manifolds or block huggers will likely be your only option.

You'll need a Dakota or ZJ intake bonnet to clear the hood. The ZJ piece is very short, only an inch or two tall. Dakota is 2-3 inches tall.

Most every ZJ has SKIM activated on the PCM, and was an option on the Dodges. The best setup is to get a ZJ motor, since the fan, intake, and shifter cable should work in the XJ. Then get a Dodge PCM with no SKIM. THe starter and oil filter are both on the passenger side, sear the battery. On the Ram and Dakota, the starter is on the driver's, and oil filter on the passenger. I had to do some configuring to get the a-pipe up over the 3rd link, and the link almost smacks the starter.

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  #56  
Old April 5th, 2011, 11:35
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

So they actually use a different bell housing on the Grands than on the Dakota/Ram? The bell housing wouldn't happen to be removable like on the AW4 would it?

B
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  #57  
Old April 5th, 2011, 11:36
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

The Grands have turd-o-riffic Chrysler autos in them, aside from 93 when an AX15 was used (or AW4, for the early autos), and I think it was only available behind the 4.0...

I forget which, but either the Dakota or the Ram w/ 5spd has a non removable bellhousing. I haven't looked into the A/Ts because they don't interest me at all for a swap, I refuse to put that much energy into transplanting an automatic transmission.
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  #58  
Old April 5th, 2011, 11:37
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by John D View Post
Which ever way you decide to go, it's probably well worth a trip to the check station to find out what will be required to pass. It might not hurt to be friendly with them before you go anyway All of the information should be available from them or a state/county website.
Web site doesn't say much unfortunately. I will be stopping at the check station and chumming up to the guys that work there very soon.

B
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  #59  
Old April 5th, 2011, 14:07
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by Bloose View Post
So they actually use a different bell housing on the Grands than on the Dakota/Ram? The bell housing wouldn't happen to be removable like on the AW4 would it?

B
Yes, they would be different bellhousings, but I'm pretty sure there was no 5-speed available for V8 Grands. The 5-speed (NV3500) does not have a removable bellhousing. The autos are also one-piece with the trans.

Interesting note: If you have and want to keep your AX15, you can get a bellhousing from a 3.9/AX15 Dakota.
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  #60  
Old April 5th, 2011, 14:12
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Re: 5.2L Magnum XJ engine swap

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Originally Posted by kastein View Post
The Grands have turd-o-riffic Chrysler autos in them, aside from 93 when an AX15 was used (or AW4, for the early autos), and I think it was only available behind the 4.0...

Nothing wrong with the 44RE (5.2) or 46RE (5.9) Transmissions. Just need a shift kit and a good programmer.
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