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  #31  
Old October 7th, 2020, 13:31
RCP Phx RCP Phx is online now
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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Originally Posted by camojeep88 View Post
I have found they have a good selection of pads just a matter of figuring out which ones work best for the application...haven't called willwood and asked yet but I think I might

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Here's your choices...... https://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/Br...t?padtype=7112
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  #32  
Old October 7th, 2020, 13:33
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

Here's their pad compounds.... https://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/BrakePadsApp
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  #33  
Old October 7th, 2020, 17:39
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

The quoted Willwood pad area has got me wondering. I just did a quick a estimate of the pad area for the VANCO kit and the stock pads. These are estimates from tracing a pad onto paper and doing an area grid overlay. Not very accurate for determining the area and I have no data on caliper clamping forces.



Vanco dual piston caliper pad area 9.67 inch2
Jeep stock single piston caliper pad area 8.25 inch2
Willwood four piston caliper pad area 6.36 inch2


Would be interesting to do a side by side braking test, a sort of reverse drag race. MJR and I did this between his WJ braked Wagoneer and My XJ with VANCO brakes. We both pulled up in the same distance although I reckon my Jeep was heavier with winch, bumpers and tire carrier.
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  #34  
Old October 7th, 2020, 21:30
camojeep88 camojeep88 is offline
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

im not saying the wilwoods are superior in any way. I figured since i had a friend that desined the bracket i would give it a whirl. The only way to see is like Vince said and put them side by side. Just putting my .02 cents in about what im trying. i could have just wasted my money and would goin with the WJ knuckles probably would have been the easier route. But is it really a jeep if i still have stuff in my pockets? hopefully next week we will see how they work. Maybe the only advantage to it is how easy it is to change brake pads
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  #35  
Old October 7th, 2020, 22:30
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

It would be nice to know the Vanco piston area? The WJ is 3.78" and the Wilwood is 4.8".
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  #36  
Old October 7th, 2020, 22:44
camojeep88 camojeep88 is offline
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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It would be nice to know the Vanco piston area? The WJ is 3.78" and the Wilwood is 4.8".
i believe their website says its a dual 48mm
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  #37  
Old October 8th, 2020, 03:22
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

I calculate that dual 48mm pistons = 5.6"
That's amazing that the WJ is only 3.78"
At 4.8" the Willwood is certainly going to perform well. I don't think it will be a waste of money. My only concern would be the longevity of the pads because of the relatively small friction area. Pad life varies so much anyway with different driving style, environmental conditions, vehicle weight, pad compound...

Once you get them installed and try them I'm sure you will be pleased with the result.
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  #38  
Old October 8th, 2020, 08:03
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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I calculate that dual 48mm pistons = 5.6"
That's amazing that the WJ is only 3.78"
At 4.8" the Willwood is certainly going to perform well. I don't think it will be a waste of money. My only concern would be the longevity of the pads because of the relatively small friction area. Pad life varies so much anyway with different driving style, environmental conditions, vehicle weight, pad compound...

Once you get them installed and try them I'm sure you will be pleased with the result.
I stand corrected as the WJ brakes are 5.6" also, and since they have the same size piston as the Vanco's that places the Wilwood on the short side as larger piston have more clamping force. With the smaller pad and smaller piston's I don't see them working as well as WJ/Vanco brakes.
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  #39  
Old October 8th, 2020, 08:42
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

Camo, I keep forgetting to ask what you used for a top hat?
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  #40  
Old October 8th, 2020, 14:03
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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With the smaller pad and smaller piston's I don't see them working as well as WJ/Vanco brakes.
I am not so certain. I'm keeping an open mind on this. The Willwoods do have a smaller pad but their ratio of piston area to pad area is smaller than the VANCO or WJ. I think they may have higher clamping force, I just don't know if the pad area provides sufficiently higher friction.

Also, a sliding caliper with pistons on one side will probably need double the piston area of an opposing piston design. It could be that the Willwood's pads run a lot hotter and there is less safety margin in the maximum weight and speed of the vehicle.
In college this would have been the type of question I would have actually enjoyed answering in an applied-mathematics exam. I might have a go later but I will have to do it in SI units (Newtons) and convert the answer.
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  #41  
Old October 8th, 2020, 15:48
camojeep88 camojeep88 is offline
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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Camo, I keep forgetting to ask what you used for a top hat?
I used the wilwood 171-2233 which is a 2 inch offset and just had it drilled for correct bolt patern

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  #42  
Old October 8th, 2020, 15:49
camojeep88 camojeep88 is offline
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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I used the wilwood 171-2233 which is a 2 inch offset and just had it drilled for correct bolt patern

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Also with a .81 x 12 rotor

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  #43  
Old October 8th, 2020, 16:21
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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Originally Posted by Vince View Post
I am not so certain. I'm keeping an open mind on this. The Willwoods do have a smaller pad but their ratio of piston area to pad area is smaller than the VANCO or WJ. I think they may have higher clamping force, I just don't know if the pad area provides sufficiently higher friction.

Also, a sliding caliper with pistons on one side will probably need double the piston area of an opposing piston design. It could be that the Willwood's pads run a lot hotter and there is less safety margin in the maximum weight and speed of the vehicle.
In college this would have been the type of question I would have actually enjoyed answering in an applied-mathematics exam. I might have a go later but I will have to do it in SI units (Newtons) and convert the answer.
Wilwood will dis-agree with you on piston size and piston count. They do not count the opposite side pistons in their calculations, the clamping force is considered the same as a floating caliper. They will recommend a larger piston until you are having pedal travel issues.
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  #44  
Old October 8th, 2020, 17:00
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

That's interesting. I can understand clamping force being considered the same between the two caliper types, equal and opposite forces. But surely clamping pressure on the back of the pads will be different (force x area)?


It's going to be better than a stock setup, so will be at the least as safe as that.


Going off topic slightly, anyone had any experience with a Pro-Cut on car brake lathe? I am waiting for my new set of Black Magic pads to arrive and I am intending to have my discs skimmed before fitting them.
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  #45  
Old October 8th, 2020, 17:50
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Re: VANCO Big Brakes and U Turn steering

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Originally Posted by Vince View Post
That's interesting. I can understand clamping force being considered the same between the two caliper types, equal and opposite forces. But surely clamping pressure on the back of the pads will be different (force x area)?


It's going to be better than a stock setup, so will be at the least as safe as that.


Going off topic slightly, anyone had any experience with a Pro-Cut on car brake lathe? I am waiting for my new set of Black Magic pads to arrive and I am intending to have my discs skimmed before fitting them.
You nailed right there, a floating does prove a "better feel" over a floating caliper with less pedal travel. What gets real interesting is two different size pistons (same side) for even better pad uniform pressure.
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