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  #16  
Old August 31st, 2018, 14:52
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linksvu linksvu is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

I only pulled the head; I had the head checked and cleaned by a local head shop. Iím comfortable with the head. Is there something I should be looking for beyond their work?
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  #17  
Old August 31st, 2018, 17:54
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by linksvu View Post
To confirm, I can re-ring without having to pull the block?

Sure it's doable, just not as easy if the block were on a stand. I replaced a piston and re-rings all the pistons after one had a rod bearing seize in a 2.5l wrangler. Amusing to discover that half the rings were upside down from the factory. Plenty of room to work on that one as I could stand between the engine and the rad. It was still running great when I sold it 30k miles later.



As mentioned, keep everything in order and orientation (front-back on the pistons too). You'll need a few specialty tools like a ring compressor and hone. Did you ever figure out why it had a bad head gasket?
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  #18  
Old September 2nd, 2018, 07:40
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

For a ring compressor, you are most likely to get the best results if you spend the money to get one of this sort:

https://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-de...?RecordID=4663

That will help remove one major potential error and make your life easier.

The one linked might be close enough to be the right size, but you should confirm the size and check to make sure you get the best size possible: https://arp-bolts.com/kits/product.php?PL=47

That is just one source. A sales person at Summit or Jegs could probably offer more sources/options.

Getting things just right with a band type compressor is an iffy proposition for someone without experience or an experienced guide.
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  #19  
Old September 2nd, 2018, 09:41
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

I'll say double to that, I have dozens of band type compressors but since losing the use of my right arm I had to buy the new style so I could get the job done this time!
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  #20  
Old September 3rd, 2018, 18:42
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

I agree with RCP Phx about having the entire block checked, at a block shop. To do that correctly, imho, there will be some tear down, and restoration of stuff by that shop, and the extra cost. This is so done in order to best to determine that you have not obtained a mystery engine with issues exacerbated by the conditions causing the blown head gasket in the first place, etc. Such a shop will insure all oil/coolant passage ways will be clear, and line-bore checked, etc.

1) Are you physically able?
2) Are you working indoors, or outdoors?
3) Do you have a good selection of mechanic tools?
4) Have time, and sufficient dinero?
I am not so perfectly able, and have replaced heads indoors, and out, i.e. of a few.., once in a blizzard, under a makeshift piece of tarp. Indoors is best, lol.

Typically one purchases a package of Plasti-gauge in order to check the rod bearings. Ask your shop what they did to check your rod bearings. Answer that for us. Details, details, details.

That said, many of us just go 'fer it. The job you are looking at is not too difficult, but you have to do everything correctly. Suggest you get a repair book. The common ones will share how to correctly cross-hatch the cylinder in question, (any cyl.), and how to ridge ream the top of it in order to send a rod/piston down into the hole. The problem with your #3 is that after miles the walls become glazed, but to expert, or non-expert eyes the glaze is there never-the-less. You must remove the glaze to ensure that the new rings marry the cylinder walls. As ANAK said; you can get that tool to utilize in a common electric hand drill. Follow the directions in a manual.., easyish. Thanks ANAK for the link!!!!!!

In replacing the rings to your rod/piston, just take it to a shop, along with the rod bearing cap, and let them do it. There are different ring sizes, blah, blah, and without special measuring tools it can be a bit confusing for most. However there are simple clues as to that subject, (like breaking rings to use as tools to clean out same channels as the old rings came from), but since you are not a mechanic, let a mechanic do it, i.e., to clean out the piston ring channels with proper tools, and to determine the correct size of a replacement set of rings for that piston, and their positioning for you. You can then install the completed unit. Be sure to protect crank shaft bearing surfaces with a rag when you knock down the rod/piston towards positioning, i.e., pull out the rag from below, pull the rod/piston down over surface, and install bearing rod cap. The bearing in the cap may be good, or not. Ask a mechanic what he/she thinks. Sorry, I digress, as a manual for your engine should explain all of that.

sflier is correct, but to qualify his statement a compression check is always mandatory. It appears you did not do that, and you can only do that once it's all together. But he, like many of us just go for it, but the major downside is if the check is bad, then sheesh you gotta do it all over. I think your draining of the oil test sez something. I'd be hard pressed to ignore that. Could be a 50/50 thing, but I'd make sure that that #3 is correct, hence a bit of a tear down.

I agree with four_shot, just do all the cylinders, that way everything will be balanced as best as possible, i.e., your final compression check should all be tightly together from one to the next, etc. His suggestion to keep parts in order is most useful. I have fount empty egg cartons are part of that triage. Anyway the idea is to have all pistons to compress the same pressures, thusly minimizing any overheating of any overworked one, so as to wear bearings evenly. All pistons/rods are at the shop, being reworked, whilst you are busy de-glazing piston cylinders, and such.

Hey RCP Phx, nice looking engine so far.

linksvu: Be absolutely sure you obtain brand spanking non-chinese head bolts. USE THAT LINK. I hope others will remind us which head bolts need to utilize some waterproof, and/or glued use.., I can't remember at the moment, lol. Your old bolts will have stretched, and are maybe useful in putting together parts of a back yard wood project. Secondly, after a few hundred miles you MUST do an in-service head bolt re-torque procedure, meaning you remove the valve cover, loosen the bolts a bit, and re-tighten to spec. You have a quality torque wrench.., right?

Also I wonder if the shop planed the mating surface of the head. One way to check is to get a can of WD-30, and a sheet of glass that will easily fit the entire head, (have a glass shop fab one for you). Flip the head so as to present the mating surface up to the sky. Use a level, and some shims in order to get that head sea-level. Spray the mating surfaces with the can getting the surfaces evenly well wetted. Place the glass onto that mating surface. The pattern you will see will indicate areas that are more, or less even in appearances. Think gasket. You should see an even display of oil between the head, and glass showing mostly exactly the same size/shape of a replacement gasket. If so, you are good to go with such a non warped head.
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  #21  
Old September 4th, 2018, 11:42
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

You guys forgot to mention cutting the ring land at the top of the cylinder if you are going to hone.

Also know that if the cylinder is worn, getting the piston out the top may not be easy since the rings may hang on the land.

Also not mentioned is grinding the rings to get the gap correct, or at least checking it during assembly.

Personally, I have done it successfully, but without experience, there are way too many ways to screw this up. If you are going to all that effort, pull the engine and have the block bored and buy a new set of pistons and rings. If you pull the block and strip it down, the machine shop costs drop drastically. While it is apart, check the rod and main bearing clearance.
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  #22  
Old September 11th, 2018, 12:37
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

Thanks all. I’ve found someone to help me replace the piston (found a Knick on the edge) and hone the cylinder.

I’ll update here after this next phase.
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  #23  
Old September 13th, 2018, 18:09
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

Another hang up: piston has some burn damage, hoping from running coolant in there too long. I’m ordering new pistons with rings. Found a local shop to can take off the rods and press on the new pistons.

So, I’m going with new piston heads and honing all six cylinders.
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  #24  
Old September 14th, 2018, 00:47
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by linksvu View Post
Another hang up: piston has some burn damage, hoping from running coolant in there too long. Iím ordering new pistons with rings. Found a local shop to can take off the rods and press on the new pistons.

So, Iím going with new piston heads and honing all six cylinders.

Burn damage? Coolant getting into the cylinder doesn't cause burnt/melted pistons. Sever overheating, bad rod bearing, or a bad injector can cause piston damage. Make sure to mark and keep track of which rod goes where and the orientations.
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  #25  
Old September 14th, 2018, 07:08
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

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Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
Burn damage? Coolant getting into the cylinder doesn't cause burnt/melted pistons. Sever overheating, bad rod bearing, or a bad injector can cause piston damage. Make sure to mark and keep track of which rod goes where and the orientations.
How does a bad rod bearing cause a melted piston? Also the rods are all the same, they're location in the motor doesn't matter.
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  #26  
Old September 14th, 2018, 07:50
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

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Originally Posted by sidewaysstarion View Post
How does a bad rod bearing cause a melted piston? Also the rods are all the same, they're location in the motor doesn't matter.
If he is not doing the crank/bearings then I would say it does matter. Those parts have all gotten acquainted in a specific orientation. Best to maintain that rather than expect them to break themselves in a second time and wind up with good oil pressure.
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  #27  
Old September 14th, 2018, 10:36
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

I plan to carefully/accurately mark the rod parts so they go back in the same way.

Now, the debate if I buy a ball-hone or just use the loaner spring kind with the three stones...
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  #28  
Old September 14th, 2018, 11:43
kjc1972 kjc1972 is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

Ball hone.
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  #29  
Old September 14th, 2018, 13:27
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

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Ball hone.
I like the authoritative reply.
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  #30  
Old September 14th, 2018, 15:30
tech1001 tech1001 is offline
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Re: Head off, replace rings while exposed?

I would use the hone with 3 stones these type of hones try to keep the cylinder. wall straight and will help keep the rings on the cylinder wall .
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