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  #1  
Old April 28th, 2020, 19:12
GreatOdin'sRaven GreatOdin'sRaven is offline
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Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Iíve been chasing an overheating problem going on three years.

Jeep overheats at idle.

Every summer my Jeep overheats, I change parts all summer and never fix it until the weather cools down and the problem goes away.

2018:
-moved to Las Vegas and my overheating problems begin
-replace every cooling system part one by one with cheap Chinese stuff.
- find leaking head gasket in Oct, repaired it
- head checked for leaks/cracks, replaced with felpro gasket using new bolts.


2019:
-overheating begins around May
- replace each cooling system part (again) one by one, but with OEM or better parts
- chase problems down all summer until weather gets cool

2020:
- overheating problems starting again this week
- super cleaned my AC condenser
- Still overheating at idle



Hereís what Iím running/replaced - (consider all parts brand new and less than one year old)

**RADIATOR**

OEM from AutoZone
Silicone hoses top and bottom from Amazon


**FANS**

HD fan clutch from Napa for ZJ
Low profile 10 inch E fan (turns on at 218 F)


**WATER PUMP**

Flowkooler high flow water pump



**THERMOSTAT**

Super Stat 180 degrees
Hesco High flow thermostat Housing


**OTHER**

-Cleaned the AC condenser for about 3 hours
-Iíve ran Preston flush more times than I can count
- My heater is not by passed (heat works fine)
- Iíve ran compressed air through every hose backwards and forward multiple times
- I donít have that stupid spring in the bottom hose but doubt thatís causing my problems
- i verified it is actually overheating using a IR heat gun pointed at thermostat housing


Any help is greatly appreciated. I am about to drive the Jeep off a cliff. I am even desperate enough to take it to a mechanic at this point.

Please help😫.
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  #2  
Old April 28th, 2020, 21:13
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Well, you wouldn't be the first person to cause an overheating problem by installing a high-flow pump and housing. Are you running lean, or torque converter slipping? Just trying to separate overheating from poor cooling, or generating too much heat.


A high-flow pump and not having the spring in the bottom might cause it to collapse at higher rpm, but you said this is an overheating at idle problem.
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  #3  
Old April 28th, 2020, 21:27
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Questionable on the radiator, but install a 195* t-stat and check the heater core, ditch the wp for a Hesco and the fan clutch would be in question(do you have a part number)?
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  #4  
Old April 28th, 2020, 21:37
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

BTW, the trans can overheat the system also, what gearing and tire size do you have?
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  #5  
Old April 28th, 2020, 21:38
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Also, what year are we talking about?
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  #6  
Old April 29th, 2020, 05:19
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devildog0 devildog0 is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

If everything else is working ok then the Spectra rad from Autozone or whoever should work fine.

Also curious about tires and gearing.

I'd swap back to a stock non high flow waterpump, and go back to a normal 195 degree t-stat.

What's going on when it starts overheating? Only overheating at lowspeed/idle? Only at highway speeds? All the time?
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  #7  
Old April 29th, 2020, 05:31
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old_man old_man is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

My bet would be on the silicone hoses. Even regular lower radiator hoses are known to collapse when hot. That is why the OEM hoses had a spring inside to keep this from happening. Find a spring or get a stiffer hose.
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  #8  
Old April 29th, 2020, 05:41
CJR CJR is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

"- find leaking head gasket in Oct, repaired it
- head checked for leaks/cracks, replaced with felpro gasket using new bolts"

Some questions for you:

1. What year and engine are we talking about?
2. Did you just replace the head gasket? Or did you have the head pressure-tested for leaks and then have the head's gasket surface reground?
3. Tell me, in detail, how you installed the head gasket?
4. What type of head-bolts did you use? Torque-to-yield, use only once, and discard bolts?
5. What was the maximum water temperature you measured with your IR temperature measuring gun?
6. Did you use the "exhaust gas sniffer kit", at the open radiator fill nozzle, available at NAPA, to "sniff" for exhaust gas getting into your anti-freeze/coolant?
7. With your IR gun, did you look at your head for excessive high temperature spots? If so, where were the hot spots located? Were any hot spots located near head bolts?

Best regards,

CJR
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  #9  
Old April 29th, 2020, 07:07
Unclewolverine Unclewolverine is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Definitely change to the 195 stat. You are probably not getting out of warm up mode on the computer at 180.
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  #10  
Old April 29th, 2020, 08:52
GreatOdin'sRaven GreatOdin'sRaven is offline
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Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Let me clarify a few things, sorry:

1999 6 cyl

The tires and gears donít matter Bc this this will overheat at idle. If I removed the tires and gears, it will still overheat in my driveway.

Also. I changed parts one at a time...

Meaning it was overheating with the 195 thermostat, remove, replace with 180, still overheats. Even Overheats with no thermostat

Same with low flow or high flow water pump. Overheats with or without.


Iím also running an after market trans cooler up front.


Itís a slow creep upwards. Gets to 210 slowly. Eventually the fan comes on and is able to keep the temps around 218-220 but loses that battle on hot days and goes up to 230 where I turn off the Jeep and go cry for a little.


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  #11  
Old April 29th, 2020, 09:13
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOdin'sRaven View Post
**FANS**

HD fan clutch from Napa for ZJ
Low profile 10 inch E fan (turns on at 218 F)
Besides the question on the ZJ clutch, most non-factory e-fans don't pull enough air.
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  #12  
Old April 29th, 2020, 09:22
GreatOdin'sRaven GreatOdin'sRaven is offline
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Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJR View Post
"- find leaking head gasket in Oct, repaired it
- head checked for leaks/cracks, replaced with felpro gasket using new bolts"

Some questions for you:

1. What year and engine are we talking about?
2. Did you just replace the head gasket? Or did you have the head pressure-tested for leaks and then have the head's gasket surface reground?
3. Tell me, in detail, how you installed the head gasket?
4. What type of head-bolts did you use? Torque-to-yield, use only once, and discard bolts?
5. What was the maximum water temperature you measured with your IR temperature measuring gun?
6. Did you use the "exhaust gas sniffer kit", at the open radiator fill nozzle, available at NAPA, to "sniff" for exhaust gas getting into your anti-freeze/coolant?
7. With your IR gun, did you look at your head for excessive high temperature spots? If so, where were the hot spots located? Were any hot spots located near head bolts?

Best regards,

CJR

Hey CJR,

I found an old list that I followed couple years ago I posted below.

1: year - 99, 6 cyl

2: head gasket was pressure tested and checked for leaks and cracks by the most recommended shop on Vegas, it wasnít cheap.

3: how I installed: list below, I remember planning this forever, followed the FSM to the T. I was proud of myself.

4: bolts I used: https://m.autozone.com/internal-engi...81_0?rrec=true

Says they are TTY torque to yield bolts

5: Maximum temp recorded? I honestly donít remember. I use a Bluetooth ODB plug that reads me temps on an app called dash command. I have compared the IR temp gun reading with the app reading and cool, warm, hot and too hot and they are usually 1-2 degrees off. So I trust what the app tells me. I remember it getting up to 240 or maybe more past summer.

6: Did I use sniffer kit: Idid last summer, I actually own a sniffer kit (so pathetic) - this is how I found my head gasket was blown the first time. I ran it a few times last summer and the liquid didnít turn green. (this is when I put the tube of liquid in the radiator right?)


7:Using IR gun for hotspots on head: no I havenít done that, but that might be a good thing to do. Will do that soon and report back.







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  #13  
Old April 29th, 2020, 09:24
GreatOdin'sRaven GreatOdin'sRaven is offline
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Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
Besides the question on the ZJ clutch, most non-factory e-fans don't pull enough air.

I ran this one in 2018:

TYC 620560 Jeep Cherokee... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IYNVN6...p_mob_ap_share


Then swappeed it out for this one in 2019: Maxiii 10 Inch Radiator Cooling... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VX5V43P...p_mob_ap_share

Both of them overheated before and after


All of this has really slowed down how long it takes to overheat. But still overheats in the end.


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  #14  
Old April 29th, 2020, 09:38
GreatOdin'sRaven GreatOdin'sRaven is offline
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Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
Well, you wouldn't be the first person to cause an overheating problem by installing a high-flow pump and housing. Are you running lean, or torque converter slipping? Just trying to separate overheating from poor cooling, or generating too much heat.


A high-flow pump and not having the spring in the bottom might cause it to collapse at higher rpm, but you said this is an overheating at idle problem.

Hmmm, not sure if Iím running lean. How would I check that?

My torque converter seemed like it was slipping a few weeks back. Changed my MAP sensor and that fix es that. Mind you overheating was an issue before and after MAP sensor.

Also, about the highflow water pump. Jeep overheated before the water pump was installed. This was one oft that greatly helped the time before it started overheating.

I could swap back to stock. But I know it will still be overheating like it did before.


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  #15  
Old April 29th, 2020, 11:17
CJR CJR is offline
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Re: Replaced Everything twice. Still overheating

My comments to your response is based on my experience with XJ head gasket leaking. Many years ago I bought a used 88XJ which ran hot on hot days. Since the car was under warranty, I contacted the dealer and he offered to have it pressure-tested to check the head gasket. My car checked-out to be OK after pressure testing and I picked it up on a very hot day. I did some very hard accelerations, and saw a puff of white smoke out the exhaust which then stopped when I backed-off on the throttle. Under normal driving I got no white smoke. White exhaust smoke only appeared momentarily when I did hard acceleration and ended when I backed. I called the dealer and explained what happened and he requested the car back. My head was then removed, pressure-tested again and the head's gasket surface was ground flat. The head was re-installed and no more overheating episodes occurred.

Here's an old hot-rodder's tip I use for installing new MLS (multi-layer-steel) head gaskets on resurfaced heads:
1. I clean the engine & head surfaces with lacquer thinner repeatedly until I can wipe the surfaces with a clean paper towel and the paper towel remains white with no dirt on it.
2, The pores of the cast iron are now clean and ready to "grip" the three (3) coats of aluminium stove-pipe paint that I apply.
3. The MLS gasket is also aluminium paint coated and dropped on the engine followed by the head. The head is torqued according to spec. Then retorqued a number of times so that the torque
reading is stable. Remember after heat cycling, the gasket & paint compresses down as the bolts settle into the head.

This technique allows the head to thermally expand/shrink horizontally , on the aluminium painted block, and maintain the gasket seal. In my view, the worst head gasket to use is a teflon-coated gasket. What happens is that the teflon bites into the pores of the cast-iron and "locks" the teflon from moving. During thermal cycling, the soft teflon coating expands/shrinks and fatique fails quickly and micro-cracks occur in the teflon coating which then become pressure leakage paths and result in a leaking head gasket. Years ago most all head gaskets were multi-layer-steel gaskets that were painted with stovepipe aluminium paint. We didn't have rampant head gasket failures like today.

TTY bolts. There is data readily available showing how high temperatures reduce the Young's Modulus of Elasticity of all materials. The head is the hottest part of an engine. Therefore, if a TTY bolt is overheated it can stretch and "take a set"(i.e.can be longer in length) and it will no longer provide the necessary "clamping force" to keep the head gasket sealed. I do not use TTY head bolts any more; I only used older XJ head bolts or new ARP head bolts.

Best regards,

CJR
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