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OEM Tech Discussion Forum for OEM (Original Equipment) or stock XJs and MJs.

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  #16  
Old December 29th, 2013, 19:23
wsxjeep wsxjeep is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

I think to find a HD radiator you will be looking to spend at least ~$200.00.

There are radiators designed for racing and extreme off-road, usually all aluminum with larger tubing, thicker cores, often used with high volume water pumps. ~$500.00 +/-.

@ ~$200.00 you are looking at the less expensive HD radiator.

What ever type of radiator you install its going to be prone to cracking, rocks, etc. All aluminum ~$500.00 radiators under extreme conditions have been know to blow out.

Some people leave the A/C condenser as it protects the front of the radiator.

The copper / metal use to be the more common radiator. If you had a problem you brought it into the radiator shop and for a few dollars, repairs were often done in under 30 mins. Desolder ... flush & fix the core ... resolder, perform a pressure / leak test and the repair was done.

Last edited by wsxjeep; December 29th, 2013 at 19:34.
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  #17  
Old March 10th, 2018, 12:59
br1anstorm br1anstorm is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetxj View Post
I'm currently checking this catalog: http://www.wermopar.com/parts-catalo...ystem/radiator


What is the different between Max Cooling and W/O max cooling? The one with max cooling is much cheaper. Not sure why.

I happened to see this thread recently when browsing for something else.... and it rang a faint bell.

I can't now remember where I read the details (must have been some Jeep forum). But the explanation is not as simple as some replies seem to suggest.

Jeep offered (at least back in the days when they produced my 1993 XJ) an OEM option called the heavy-duty or max cooling package. It may also have been part of the "towing package" option.

In the standard XJ cooling system, the transmission oil is cooled by running through a separate circuit inside the normal radiator. That's why there are two hose-connections for the tranny oil as well as the usual inlet and outlet hose connections for the coolant which flows to and from the engine block. This means of course that (a) there is less capacity within the radiator itself, because there is a transmission-oil circuit also inside there; and (b) the whole system has to work harder and often runs hotter, because the coolant has to absorb the heat not only from circulating round the engine, but it also has to cool down the tranny-oil circuit of pipes which runs inside that radiator.

Towing, or heavy duty/hot climate use, really stresses such a system. So Jeep's solution (or option) for the towing kit was to install a separate oil-cooler for the tranny oil outside and in front of the radiator and a/c condenser. The main radiator then had to cool only the engine-coolant, and because there was no tranny-oil cooler circuit inside it, it also had more capacity so was more efficient in reducing the temp of the coolant flowing through it. Hence the "max cooling" label.

With the manual transmission there is no auto-box fluid to cool, so the manual version of the XJ can use either radiator (if the radiator has the tranny connections for the internal circuit they are just blanked off).

Obviously therefore, the point to beware of is that if you have an auto-transmission XJ, you should only fit the "max cooling" radiator if you already have - or if you install - a separate oil-cooler for the tranny oil.

There are of course multiple aftermarket radiator options - 2 or 3 core, all-aluminium, etc - and some of these are bigger capacity or higher-flow, so may be marketed as heavy duty or high efficiency. But the fundamental point remains. If you have an auto transmission, you must either fit a radiator with the inbuilt tranny-oil cooler, or you must ensure you have a separate external oil cooler.
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  #18  
Old March 10th, 2018, 13:05
br1anstorm br1anstorm is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetxj View Post
I'm currently checking this catalog: http://www.wermopar.com/parts-catalo...ystem/radiator


What is the different between Max Cooling and W/O max cooling? The one with max cooling is much cheaper. Not sure why.

I happened to see this thread recently when browsing for something else.... and it rang a faint bell.

I can't now remember where I read the details (must have been some Jeep forum). But the explanation is not as simple as some replies seem to suggest.

Jeep offered (at least back in the days when they produced my 1993 XJ) an OEM option called the heavy-duty or max cooling package. It may also have been part of the "towing package" option.

In the standard XJ cooling system, the transmission oil is cooled by running through a separate circuit inside the normal radiator. That's why there are two hose-connections for the tranny oil as well as the usual inlet and outlet hose connections for the coolant which flows to and from the engine block. This means of course that (a) there is less capacity within the radiator itself, because there is a transmission-oil circuit also inside there; and (b) the whole system has to work harder and often runs hotter, because the coolant has to absorb the heat not only from circulating round the engine, but it also has to cool down the tranny-oil circuit of pipes which runs inside that radiator.

Towing, or heavy duty/hot climate use, really stresses such a system. So Jeep's solution (or option) for the towing kit was to install a separate oil-cooler for the tranny oil outside and in front of the radiator and a/c condenser. The main radiator then had to cool only the engine-coolant, and because there was no tranny-oil cooler circuit inside it, it also had more capacity so was more efficient in reducing the temp of the coolant flowing through it. Hence the "max cooling" label. That is also why this 'max cooling' radiator is cheaper: because it's simpler - it doesn't have the internal oil cooler and the extra connections for it.

With the manual transmission there is no auto-box fluid to cool, so the manual version of the XJ can use either radiator (if the radiator has the tranny connections for the internal circuit they are just blanked off).

Obviously therefore, the point to beware of is that if you have an auto-transmission XJ, you should only fit the "max cooling" radiator if you already have - or if you install - a separate oil-cooler for the tranny oil.

There are of course multiple aftermarket radiator options - 2 or 3 core, all-aluminium, etc - and some of these are bigger capacity or higher-flow, so may be marketed as heavy duty or high efficiency. But the fundamental point remains. If you have an auto transmission, you must either fit a radiator with the inbuilt tranny-oil cooler, or you must ensure you have a separate external oil cooler.
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  #19  
Old March 10th, 2018, 17:30
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by br1anstorm View Post

Obviously therefore, the point to beware of is that if you have an auto-transmission XJ, you should only fit the "max cooling" radiator if you already have - or if you install - a separate oil-cooler for the tranny oil.

Google says otherwise. If you google for images of the Mopar Max-Cooling radiator (p/n 5191929AA) it clearly has the internal tranny cooler connections. For example right here on , there is a thread with pictures of both. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1110640. As I recall, the main differences were an aluminum 2-core, possibly a bit thicker and longer, and that the mounting brackets were a bit different.

As for reducing capacity, it's not as bad as you might think, since the stock tranny cooler is just a small exchanger inside the end tank. That's intentional, as having it inside the radiator also helps warm up and regulate the temperature of the tranny in colder weather. The towing option didn't remove the internal heat exchanger, it adds an additional external one inline with the original (before it as I recall). If you only drive in hot weather, you can plumb just an external one if trans overheating is a concern.
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  #20  
Old March 10th, 2018, 17:35
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
Google says otherwise. If you google for images of the Mopar Max-Cooling radiator (p/n 5191929AA) it clearly has the internal tranny cooler connections. For example right here on , there is a thread with pictures of both. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1110640. As I recall (from memory, so don't quote me on this), the main differences were an aluminum 2-core, possibly a bit thicker and longer, and that the mounting brackets were a bit different.

As for reducing capacity, it's not as bad as you might think, since the stock tranny cooler is just a small exchanger inside the end tank. That's intentional, as having it inside the radiator also helps warm up and regulate the temperature of the tranny in colder weather. The towing option didn't remove the internal heat exchanger, it adds an additional external one inline with the original (before it as I recall). If you only drive in hot weather, you can plumb just an external one if trans overheating is a concern.
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  #21  
Old March 11th, 2018, 10:41
br1anstorm br1anstorm is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
Google says otherwise. If you google for images of the Mopar Max-Cooling radiator (p/n 5191929AA) it clearly has the internal tranny cooler connections. For example right here on , there is a thread with pictures of both. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1110640. As I recall, the main differences were an aluminum 2-core, possibly a bit thicker and longer, and that the mounting brackets were a bit different.

As for reducing capacity, it's not as bad as you might think, since the stock tranny cooler is just a small exchanger inside the end tank. That's intentional, as having it inside the radiator also helps warm up and regulate the temperature of the tranny in colder weather. The towing option didn't remove the internal heat exchanger, it adds an additional external one inline with the original (before it as I recall). If you only drive in hot weather, you can plumb just an external one if trans overheating is a concern.
I don't think I ought to argue with Mr Google - or indeed with Mr lawsoncl! I also don't know why both posts seem to appear twice (is there a website glitch?). In terms of the actual information, I confess that I was commenting from my own recollection of something I had read elsewhere a long time ago. I didn't research or check the Mopar part numbers (or other possible sources like Rock Auto) before posting. So I'm happy to be corrected.

The discussion does leave me a bit puzzled, though, as I have seen XJ radiators without the tranny cooler included. Are they therefore only for manual transmission vehicles?

I have never had the chance to look closely at an XJ with the towing option installed. It does seem a bit elaborate if in the towing setup the tranny oil runs through the 'normal' cooling circuit inside the radiator and then also through an additional external oil-cooler as well. Twice as many connections, twice as much risk of leakage or failure, and thus more complicated.

It also doesn't quite explain why the (Mopar?) "max cooling" radiator is cheaper than the standard one (as the OP noted). If the max cooling one is thicker, or has more cores, then logically it should be more expensive. And I cannot see any reason - if both radiator options are offered to fit the XJ - why the "max cooling" one would have different mounting brackets.

More questions than answers..... but then I have often found it a challenge to figure out the logic behind some of the Jeep OEM parts options and specifications. As I'm in the UK I'm forced anyway to source non-OEM parts, so in most situations I'm just glad to find any alternative that fits!
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  #22  
Old March 11th, 2018, 11:09
br1anstorm br1anstorm is offline
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Re: OEM Radiator Options Question.

A quick follow up to my latest post (above) on this topic. Thought I'd just have a quick look at the Jeep/OEM/Mopar parts listings to see what they show.

My Jeep XJ factory OEM parts catalogue shows (for my 1993 vehicle) two radiators:
without max cooling - part no 5202 8134 -but then it notes "stamped 5202 8131" !
with max cooling - part no 5202 8133

The moparamerica.com site also lists two radiators, but with part nos that are presumably Mopar rather than Jeep. They are:
with max cooling - part no 5191929AA (as mentioned by lawsoncl), price $127.68
without max cooling - part no 5207 9682AF, price $257.40.

As if that isn't already a bit confusing, Rock Auto adds further complexity.
For my 1993 XJ it only lists the radiator without max cooling, p/n 5207 9682AF, which it says is 2 core.
But if you look at, say, Rock Auto's listing for the 1997 XJ, it shows both that one, and another one with yet another p/n 5208 0104AC - which it says is heavy duty, aluminium, Middle East spec w/auto trans, and is even more expensive.

As they say...... go figure!
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