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Wondering what Axles for build

H

Hondo782

NAXJA Forum User
Location
North Carolina
I recently bough another XJ , a 1995 2 door with some body damage but good motor and drive train for 500$ I started just fixing it up and just replacing the items that needed replacing and changing fluids and things like that . I am now starting to get ready for building it up and I really want to try to do a solid build . Right now I have a 6.5" long arm lift a SYE a rear drive shaft to be ordered but paid for , 4 KMC 17" beadlocks wheels ( 5x5 pattern with spacers to fit on stock axles ) and 315/70 R17 tires for the build . I got parts for the front axle to upgrade it and a cav fab UTK steering kit . I was thinking I would get JK axles hopefully JK rubicon axles and gear them 488 and get a truss and mounts and set them up for my XJ . My end goal is good gears 37" tires with the above wheels after market bumpers adding weight , full size spare and wench adding weight . The thing I have come into with JK axles is the cost is all over the place and I am not sure what I will need beyond the truss and mounts like getting the yolk matched up and steering . Would it just be better to get a JK dana 30 front and 44 rear or wait for the JK 44 set ? I am planning to get a welder and take a shot at welding the axles myself possibly doing the gears and anything else I can do with out creating a road hazard for any f the people sharing the road with me . Its odd seeing dana 60s cheaper than JK dana 44 axles . I thought at the start of this small project that the JK axles would be the way to go for cost and for parts and ease of finding a set but I am starting to 2nd guess my idea and think I would feel a bit better getting some intel from guys that have swapped JK axles into there XJs and guys that ran JK 30s upfront with beadlocks and 37" tires . Try to make the best choice with the options I have and get an idea of what beyond truss kits and brackets I will need like track bar steering yolks or what ever extra items might be needed . If I can get JK rubicon dana 44s I was thinking get them set up and under the XJ first run them on 410 gears until I can get the next phase started and upgrade axles shafts and regear . Any help is appreciated .
 
For the amount you'll spend on jk axles and wanting to run 37s go tons. JK axles are ridiculously expensive for what they are. Or you get a d30 and 8.25 build it and run 35s. IMHO a HP44 and 9 are the best combo for 35-37s, not as big and heavy as tons but plenty strong. Hard to find a good HP44 front but they're around. 9s are everywhere. Gears I'd be looking at 5.13s for 37s unless you got a 5 speed that. 4.88s.
 
I agree a real dann44 with 9" rear both geared 5.13 5.27ish. The dana is capped at 4.88 gears wich arent enough for bigger than 35s in my opinion

Rcv axles in a dana 30 will survive, the 4.88 ring and pinion may also do alright depending on your driving style.

I havent broke my 4.88 hp 30 ring and pinion yet. But at times find its not enough gear for 35s.

Id look for a hp44 out of a 70s ford heck itl even have a 9" rear.
The older ones are good have drum brakes but can be changed to disc. Dont tell anyone they exist. Many think ford only used hi pinion from 77.5-79 in the pickups


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5 speed doesnt realy change anything 4.88s still not enough gear for 35s and bigger tires

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I had intentions to go for a Ford HP Dana 44 front and 9" rear. Went as far as buying some and tearing them down, but ultimately have sold them and decided to go with JK axles.

IMO, the superior combo is a Rubicon 44 front, and a NON-Rubicon 44 rear.

There really is no benefit to going with a JK Dana 30 front, and the Rubicon rears have some inconvenient limitations like unequal length shafts that are unique to that axle, and lockers which are unique to that axle. The OEM lockers are not known for their reliability, and there are only a few options for replacement.

In a perfect world, a ProRock 44 housing would be a great choice because the 44 fronts are still notorious for cracking the passenger side axle tube where the track bar is welded on. A truss, sleeves, and C-gussets are highly recommended. Even then, the factory ball joints are the same as the Dana 30 ball joints.

I was fortunate enough to buy a 44 front with a truss, gussets, 5.13's, Dynatrac ball joints, and RCV's. I paid good money for it, but it has some bling components on it. That's really the only way the 44 fronts can really outpace the Dana 30's and bridge the gap between Dana 30 and Dana 60.

I'm looking to pair that axle with a non-rubicon 44 rear that I'm looking to build 35 spline. Unfortunately, the only two 35 spline locker options are ARB or OX. I really didn't want to go selectable in the rear, but the factory 30 spline just doesn't seem like enough of an upgrade for me to throw a bunch of money at building one. The OEM shafts are known for bending the flanges, causing the rear wheels to wobble. Not a detrimental failure that will end your day, but it was common enough to read about while doing research that it scared me off. 35 spline alloy shafts in semi-float should be beef-enough.

If I had unlimited funds I would go for a 609 or a ProRock 60 front paired with a custom 9" rear, but that ain't gonna happen.

I got turned off from doing a 9" for a couple reasons. 1, the housings are very thin. After working on one and moving it around, I did not trust the 3/16" wall tubes. 9" are known for strength because of the 3rd pinion bearing, but the tubes need all the help they can get.

2, the pinion is not centered. There is a 2.25" lateral offset from the transfer case output (centered) to the pinion. This is acceptable when running a single cardan driveshaft, but that requires the pinion to be very flat rather than pointed up at the transfer case. If you've ever seen a 9 inch, you'll know that could be problematic on a trail rig because the pinion sits very low.

If this were to be run with a double cardan shaft, the u-joint at the pinion would be in constant binding, even if your vertical pinion angle was set perfectly. I calculated there would be a 4 degree misalignment on the u-joint, which will produce unacceptable vibrations around 2500 rpm of the driveshaft (50 mph on 35's with 5.13's, source). So, my plan from there was to buy a custom housing with a centered pinion. I was looking specifically at this kit from Quick Performance which comes with a centered-pinion housing (with 1/4" tube upgrade), and matching shafts for $1000. Not a bad deal TBH. It becomes more pricey when you consider buying an aftermarket nodular center section, disc brakes with a parking brake (Explorer 8.8 brakes work), and a new driveshaft because the pinion snout is much shorter.

cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching...
 
Last edited:
Evan03 said:
Why not do a high 9" ?

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Click to expand...

Money. You ever see the price of a True-Hi9?

That, plus, you're then driving on the coast side of the gears. Obviously pretty well proven to be strong, but inherently won't be as strong as a low pinion in a rear axle application.
 
Im coming up with about 2400 hi9 538 gears and spool. Grizzly bumps price to 3000. Grizzly would be smarter way to go.


Should just need to come up with a houseing and customn length 35spine shafts and brake hub parts maybe another 1400 mabe 2000 to be safe.

Can bargain build 1350 drive shaft.

I could see doing this but for the front as theres bargain rear axles like dana 80 70 60 9" almost forgot the whatever axle comes in the fords 10.25 or something.

Build this over a year or two.

Would probly require a full suspension revamp with ori struts and a black box.

Ohhh my good thing i can bargain fab some stuff

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
 
XJlimitedx99 said:
IMO, the superior combo is a Rubicon 44 front, and a NON-Rubicon 44 rear.

The Rubicon rears have some inconvenient limitations like unequal length shafts

The OEM shafts are known for bending the flanges
Click to expand...

Since you have done some research, I am hoping you can answer my questions.

Do the non Rubicon 44s have equal length shafts?

Is it all shafts that have flange problems or just the factory? Do the chromo stock spline have flange issues?

I have been debating building JK axles but I cant see myself spending more on axles than on the whole jeep just to know I am bulletproof on 33s.

My hope is to find someone local selling a polished turdy that I can pick up to throw under the front. I never plan to go bigger than 33s and I am calm and level headed crawler; never try to bump it unless I have to.
 
Wont speak for the Rubi 44, but the MJ/XJ D44 did not have equal length shafts.
 
BTW, you can't have it both ways! If it has equal length shafts the the pinion is off-center!
 
Thankyou for all the responses , I think I am going to get a set of JK dana 44 axles with the electric lockers 5.38 gears RCV front chrome rear axles and the cables and old drive shafts with some type of JK upgraded front steering . They do not have brake calipers and rotors so I will need to buy them and I need to figure out steering and drive shafts . I was also curious what folks were doing as far as upgrading anything in the steering or brake systems from factory to handle the new tires or bigger JK brakes ?
 
I think you are saying pretty much what I was thinking , the JK dana 30 just felt like a small upgrade but waiting for the 44 just makes more sense no matter what tire size I end up at . I did want to say thankyou for the help and the response I greatly appreciate the help very much . I was curious on what steering and brake upgrades people are making with there swaps to handle the bigger tires and the upgraded brakes ? One thing that got me set on the JK axles is even with the tons being cheaper around here I already have 2000$ in beadlocks that fit the JK axles I did not want to sell them to try to buy a 6 or 8 lug set of beadlocks . I should if everything goes right have a set of JK dana 44 axles locked with 5.36 gears RCV front and chrome rear axles this weekend , I will need to get the mounts and I still need to get calipers and brakes but getting the gears , lockers and RCV shafts felt like it made it worth getting them . The guy selling them has JK going to tons . Again I appreciate the help
 
smokeyyank said:
For the amount you'll spend on jk axles and wanting to run 37s go tons. JK axles are ridiculously expensive for what they are. Or you get a d30 and 8.25 build it and run 35s. IMHO a HP44 and 9 are the best combo for 35-37s, not as big and heavy as tons but plenty strong. Hard to find a good HP44 front but they're around. 9s are everywhere. Gears I'd be looking at 5.13s for 37s unless you got a 5 speed that. 4.88s.
Click to expand...

Thankyou sir for the help and the response it is much appreciated .
 
XJlimitedx99 said:
I had intentions to go for a Ford HP Dana 44 front and 9" rear. Went as far as buying some and tearing them down, but ultimately have sold them and decided to go with JK axles.

IMO, the superior combo is a Rubicon 44 front, and a NON-Rubicon 44 rear.

There really is no benefit to going with a JK Dana 30 front, and the Rubicon rears have some inconvenient limitations like unequal length shafts that are unique to that axle, and lockers which are unique to that axle. The OEM lockers are not known for their reliability, and there are only a few options for replacement.

In a perfect world, a ProRock 44 housing would be a great choice because the 44 fronts are still notorious for cracking the passenger side axle tube where the track bar is welded on. A truss, sleeves, and C-gussets are highly recommended. Even then, the factory ball joints are the same as the Dana 30 ball joints.

I was fortunate enough to buy a 44 front with a truss, gussets, 5.13's, Dynatrac ball joints, and RCV's. I paid good money for it, but it has some bling components on it. That's really the only way the 44 fronts can really outpace the Dana 30's and bridge the gap between Dana 30 and Dana 60.

I'm looking to pair that axle with a non-rubicon 44 rear that I'm looking to build 35 spline. Unfortunately, the only two 35 spline locker options are ARB or OX. I really didn't want to go selectable in the rear, but the factory 30 spline just doesn't seem like enough of an upgrade for me to throw a bunch of money at building one. The OEM shafts are known for bending the flanges, causing the rear wheels to wobble. Not a detrimental failure that will end your day, but it was common enough to read about while doing research that it scared me off. 35 spline alloy shafts in semi-float should be beef-enough.

If I had unlimited funds I would go for a 609 or a ProRock 60 front paired with a custom 9" rear, but that ain't gonna happen.

I got turned off from doing a 9" for a couple reasons. 1, the housings are very thin. After working on one and moving it around, I did not trust the 3/16" wall tubes. 9" are known for strength because of the 3rd pinion bearing, but the tubes need all the help they can get.

2, the pinion is not centered. There is a 2.25" lateral offset from the transfer case output (centered) to the pinion. This is acceptable when running a single cardan driveshaft, but that requires the pinion to be very flat rather than pointed up at the transfer case. If you've ever seen a 9 inch, you'll know that could be problematic on a trail rig because the pinion sits very low.

If this were to be run with a double cardan shaft, the u-joint at the pinion would be in constant binding, even if your vertical pinion angle was set perfectly. I calculated there would be a 4 degree misalignment on the u-joint, which will produce unacceptable vibrations around 2500 rpm of the driveshaft (50 mph on 35's with 5.13's, source). So, my plan from there was to buy a custom housing with a centered pinion. I was looking specifically at this kit from Quick Performance which comes with a centered-pinion housing (with 1/4" tube upgrade), and matching shafts for $1000. Not a bad deal TBH. It becomes more pricey when you consider buying an aftermarket nodular center section, disc brakes with a parking brake (Explorer 8.8 brakes work), and a new driveshaft because the pinion snout is much shorter.

cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching...
Click to expand...

I think you pretty much said what I was kind of thinking but I just do not know enough to be sure and getting the 2nd or 3rd opinion helps . Thankyou for the response !!! One thing for me even with the ton axles being cheaper I already have 2000$ in beadlocks that will fit the JK axles and was not wanting to buy 6 or 8 lug wheels . The one thing that really got me thinking the JK axles was aftermarket options , finding brands and parts to pick from that will be in stock is nice . The other thing I think we might sometimes overlook is a lot of JK guys are upgrading to tons and it is possible to get JK axles with gears and upgraded axles all you really need is the mounts and steering to get rolling . I am wondering what steering or brake upgrades might be needed ? I was thinking steering box brace, but now I am also wondering if I might need hydro assist or some upgraded steering set up just to run down the street and the upgraded brakes have me wondering if I need a new master cylinder to keep up with JK factory disk brakes .
 
Evan03 said:
Im coming up with about 2400 hi9 538 gears and spool. Grizzly bumps price to 3000. Grizzly would be smarter way to go.


Should just need to come up with a houseing and customn length 35spine shafts and brake hub parts maybe another 1400 mabe 2000 to be safe.

Can bargain build 1350 drive shaft.

I could see doing this but for the front as theres bargain rear axles like dana 80 70 60 9" almost forgot the whatever axle comes in the fords 10.25 or something.

Build this over a year or two.

Would probly require a full suspension revamp with ori struts and a black box.

Ohhh my good thing i can bargain fab some stuff

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thankyou for the response I always appreciate the help and opinions very much
 
Goose_XJ88 said:
Do the non Rubicon 44s have equal length shafts?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Goose_XJ88 said:
Is it all shafts that have flange problems or just the factory? Do the chromo stock spline have flange issues?
Click to expand...

Bending flanges is much more common with stock shafts. However, I did see reports of bent flanges on alloy shafts. Keep in mind, XJ's are much lighter than JK's, so it will likely be less of a concern.

Goose_XJ88 said:
I have been debating building JK axles but I cant see myself spending more on axles than on the whole jeep just to know I am bulletproof on 33s.
Click to expand...

IMO, 33's are safe with a high pinion 30 front and 29 spline 8.25 rear. If you can find some that are already built up a bit, great.

RCP Phx said:
Wont speak for the Rubi 44, but the MJ/XJ D44 did not have equal length shafts.
Click to expand...

RCP Phx said:
BTW, you can't have it both ways! If it has equal length shafts the the pinion is off-center!
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure the non-rubicon JK 44 rears and also 8.25s have centered pinions and equal length shafts, right? They both definitely have equal length shafts.

Hondo782 said:
I was also curious what folks were doing as far as upgrading anything in the steering or brake systems from factory to handle the new tires or bigger JK brakes ?
Click to expand...

For steering, I'm intending to buy the Rancho high steer knuckles. Its not a huge gain, but the JK tie rods sit super low, so anything will help get the tie rod out of the rocks and keep the drag link flat.

The JK brakes are also notoriously inadequate. Fortunately there are a ton of big brake options. Unfortunately they're expensive (JK guys must have deep pockets because everything costs more in JK land).

Option 1 is the best bang for your buck. It consists of new front caliper brackets which move the calipers out slightly and allows for larger rotors. It retains the factory single-piston calipers up front, and pairs with stock brakes in the rear.

Option 2 involves a different caliper bracket and allows for twin-piston calipers and even larger rotors. The calipers are the same ones from Ram 1500's of that era. I am going this route. Be aware, its recommended to swap the master cylinder to a model with a larger bore to retain pedal feel with the larger calipers. I have installed a MC from a 99 Durango on my XJ.

Something interesting about the brakes on JK axles is you can bolt on the brakes from JL-Rubicons and Gladiators. The twin-piston setup is the same as the JL-R/JT setup in the front, but they also have huge 14" rotors in the rear (the rear rotors are larger than front). I decided this extra cost was unnecessary and to stick with the factory JK brakes in the rear.

I'm not linking anything in here because I can't quite remember a lot of the specifics. I remember it got a bit confusing. I recommend doing your own research on that. If you have the money to just buy a big brake kit that will be the most simple solution.
 
If you haven't done it, frame stiffeners are a must. As for steering and brakes. 37's is pushing the stock system. For steering could look into ram assist, if that's not an option go with a WJ/High flow pump and a bigger steering gear. Brakes, bigger booster and good pads help. you'll gain some more braking power with the JK brakes. On a stock 30 WJ brakes are the best option but since you're swapping no issue. Hydroboost, is another option for both bakes and power steering but requires some fab and know how. As for brackets and trusses. Lot's of places make fab parts. Barnes, ruffstuff, TMR, ballistic, to name a few.
 
XJlimitedx99 said:
Yes.



Bending flanges is much more common with stock shafts. However, I did see reports of bent flanges on alloy shafts. Keep in mind, XJ's are much lighter than JK's, so it will likely be less of a concern.



IMO, 33's are safe with a high pinion 30 front and 29 spline 8.25 rear. If you can find some that are already built up a bit, great.





I'm 99% sure the non-rubicon JK 44 rears and also 8.25s have centered pinions and equal length shafts, right? They both definitely have equal length shafts.



For steering, I'm intending to buy the Rancho high steer knuckles. Its not a huge gain, but the JK tie rods sit super low, so anything will help get the tie rod out of the rocks and keep the drag link flat.

The JK brakes are also notoriously inadequate. Fortunately there are a ton of big brake options. Unfortunately they're expensive (JK guys must have deep pockets because everything costs more in JK land).

Option 1 is the best bang for your buck. It consists of new front caliper brackets which move the calipers out slightly and allows for larger rotors. It retains the factory single-piston calipers up front, and pairs with stock brakes in the rear.

Option 2 involves a different caliper bracket and allows for twin-piston calipers and even larger rotors. The calipers are the same ones from Ram 1500's of that era. I am going this route. Be aware, its recommended to swap the master cylinder to a model with a larger bore to retain pedal feel with the larger calipers. I have installed a MC from a 99 Durango on my XJ.

Something interesting about the brakes on JK axles is you can bolt on the brakes from JL-Rubicons and Gladiators. The twin-piston setup is the same as the JL-R/JT setup in the front, but they also have huge 14" rotors in the rear (the rear rotors are larger than front). I decided this extra cost was unnecessary and to stick with the factory JK brakes in the rear.

I'm not linking anything in here because I can't quite remember a lot of the specifics. I remember it got a bit confusing. I recommend doing your own research on that. If you have the money to just buy a big brake kit that will be the most simple solution.
Click to expand...
I am kind of thinking of while they are off the jeep and I am working on them to change the ball joints to something like the teraflex ball joints or some upgraded ball joints . Brakes I think I will end up just going as factory as possible I have a buddy who works at a parts store and I can get the parts pretty cheap as long as its factory parts . The thing that in the back of my mind that gets me is knowing how much I am spending on a 500$ jeep lol but honestly I just kind of like working on the jeep and my first Jeep was a XJ and I always wanted a 2 door for some reason .
 
smokeyyank said:
If you haven't done it, frame stiffeners are a must. As for steering and brakes. 37's is pushing the stock system. For steering could look into ram assist, if that's not an option go with a WJ/High flow pump and a bigger steering gear. Brakes, bigger booster and good pads help. you'll gain some more braking power with the JK brakes. On a stock 30 WJ brakes are the best option but since you're swapping no issue. Hydroboost, is another option for both bakes and power steering but requires some fab and know how. As for brackets and trusses. Lot's of places make fab parts. Barnes, ruffstuff, TMR, ballistic, to name a few.
Click to expand...

I am looking at some of the steering hydro assist options I kind of feel like its probably my best option / upgrade at some point for steering . The frame stiffeners I think will be bumped up sooner than later on my to do list I just feel like its something thats a good idea and I at least would like the midframe stiffeners . I really appreciate the response and the advise !
 
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