UCA axle end bushing options?

couple notes...

- the term "misalignment" was used a lot concerning the video from metalcloak. to be clear, this is not the same as misalignment highlighted in hard joints/rod ends. notice those are measured in degrees, not inches. the "misalignment" highlighted in the video is the deflection that a bushing needs to take up.
- the plug welds on your tubes to your housing should be sufficient to keep them from spinning. UNLESS your joint selection is poor with a 4 link or radius arm. if the plug welds are weaker than your control arm mounts, then sure, theyll spin. should be a non issue for a 3 link.

I did weld my tube due to the rotational force caused from breaks. I also trusted but that was for other reasons

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

"Max" your mailbox is full, I tried to PM you!

Ooops. Thanks for letting me know. I made room.

maxbraketorque said:

...

During my first drive around town this afternoon with the 3-link radius arm setup, it drove fine. I couldn't tell any difference except perhaps it was a little more floaty and smoother on uneven bumps.

Click to expand...

I got a little more drive time today on the 3-link radius arm setup. No obvious short-comings in road manners. I'm going to stick with it, well unless something happens to make me change my mind.

With respect to the original intent of this thread, I've learned that for the axle-side connections of a 4-link radius arm suspension, high radial compliance bushings are the right choice. Stock rubber bushings probably have the most radial compliance. For sure, a Johnny Joint or similar low compliance bushing is a very bad choice for a 4-link radius arm.

For the 3-link radius arm that I'm evaluating now, the axle-side bushing options are much wider because there is no need for high radial compliance. Anything from stock to a full metal bushing will work. Just depends on preferences.

Thanks everyone for the contributions.

Just a heads up, some ppl wear through upper joints quite often when only running 1 link. Think how it's serving double duty when you mash the brakes now

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

Thanks. For the upper arm, I'm planning on going with a 1/2" bolt Johnny Joint at the rear and a 1/2" bolt Metalcloak Duroflex at the axle side. Hopefully that will last.

That should do you well.
I have the Johnny joint at the axle on my 3 link and it's still tight after probably 30k miles.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

Just reading through this thread. Interesting topic. I'm glad to see its getting some attention. I've been running a TnT radius arm setup for awhile that has Johnny's on the frame and rubbers on the axle. It does fairly well, but I've always been a bit perplexed by the inherent bind with a setup like this.

Seems as if there is a solution to this. Albeit, I've never seen it run, nor would I want to:

http://d44tech.com/hp_44_wah.html

As far as bushing options go, I just got some Clayton shackles which use their "GIIRO" joint on the frame side. It looks like it has a similar sales pitch as the Metalcloak Duroflex.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/news/giiro-bushing

XJlimitedx99 said:

Just reading through this thread. Interesting topic. I'm glad to see its getting some attention. I've been running a TnT radius arm setup for awhile that has Johnny's on the frame and rubbers on the axle. It does fairly well, but I've always been a bit perplexed by the inherent bind with a setup like this.

Seems as if there is a solution to this. Albeit, I've never seen it run, nor would I want to:

http://d44tech.com/hp_44_wah.html

As far as bushing options go, I just got some Clayton shackles which use their "GIIRO" joint on the frame side. It looks like it has a similar sales pitch as the Metalcloak Duroflex.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/news/giiro-bushing

Click to expand...

Wow. Someone actually built a wristed axle. Cool. This had occurred to me as an option, but seemed like an expensive, perhaps over-the-top solution, at least for me because I don't have welding skillz (or time).

Yeah, the Giiro joint seems to have the same sale points as the Metalcloak. I initially was aiming to go with a Giiro joint for the axle-side UCA mount, but Clayton doesn't offer one in that size. I specifically asked when I couldn't find the correct size on their website.

Lots of castor talk while driving on the street, must be some good stuff you guys are smoking.
Im with rcp its changes so little no matter what System its anchored with. Off road ive never been crawling through the rocks going shit im twisted up my castors off

I wouldnt trust a radiaus arm 3 link seems shit could hit the Fan real fast if the upper bolt breaks or mount comes of the axle.
Same is true for a true 3 link but there is less Binding slightly decreasing the chance of shit suddenly hitting the fan

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Evan03 said:

Lots of castor talk while driving on the street, must be some good stuff you guys are smoking.
Im with rcp its changes so little no matter what System its anchored with. Off road ive never been crawling through the rocks going shit im twisted up my castors off

I wouldnt trust a radiaus arm 3 link seems shit could hit the Fan real fast if the upper bolt breaks or mount comes of the axle.
Same is true for a true 3 link but there is less Binding slightly decreasing the chance of shit suddenly hitting the fan

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

The caster angle concern has turned out to be a complete non-issue. I can't feel any difference between left and right turns on the street.

As far as having just one arm to keep the axle at the proper orientation, the best I can say is that there is only one track bar too, and if something with that breaks, the vehicle will be stranded as well. The only thing that has any remote chance of breaking in for the track bar or a 3-link is one of the bolts. Moving to a 1/2" bolt for the 3-link upper arm should resolve any concern.

A radius arm 3-link will no more bind than a true 3-link. For the radius arm 3-link, the only place where binding can occur is at the connection to the vehicle. Those joints need to be able to twist to match the angle of the axle. If a fully articulating joint is used, there will be zero bind.

True but that binding is intensfied in a short upper arm.

9/16 bolts are what I run. 1/2" is small id probly drill out or change bushings to run 9/16

5/8 is better but I found them a pain to deal with decided to run 9/16 through out

The control arms have alittle triangulation taking some load off the track bar.
The upper Single link is 100% keeping the axle from rotating without help from anything else.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Evan03 said:

True but that binding is intensfied in a short upper arm.

Click to expand...

But for a 3-link radius arm, all the twisting of the arms happens at the frame-end of the long arm. There is no need or force on the short arm to twist. There is also no radial forces on any of the bushings as the axle flexes. Its inherently 100% bind-free if the bushing at the frame-end is a fully articulating joint.

Evan03 said:

9/16 bolts are what I run. 1/2" is small id probly drill out or change bushings to run 9/16

5/8 is better but I found them a pain to deal with decided to run 9/16 through out

The control arms have alittle triangulation taking some load off the track bar.
The upper Single link is 100% keeping the axle from rotating without help from anything else.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

The XJ factory bolt for the UCA axle-side connection is 10 mm, so moving to 1/2" is a substantial benefit. It allows for 160% more clamp force and shear strength. But 9/16" does allow for double the clamp force and shear strength over a 10 mm bolt, so it has the strength of two 10 mm bolts.

However, the associated forces are impressively high. The double shear yield load of a 10 mm grade 10.9 bolt is ~19,000 lbs (assuming all the loading happens in the unthreaded portion of the shank). A 1/2" grade 8 bolt is ~30,600 lbs. A 9/16" grade 8 bolt is ~38,600 lbs. These are impressively high numbers, even for a 10 mm bolt. This is especially true when considering that most of the fore-aft loading on the axle is going to be handled by the LCA because it attaches much more closely to the axle than the UCA.

Overall, I think I'd be more worried about the diff breaking before a 1/2" dia bolt shears. Out of curiosity, I checked the IRO 3-link installation instructions, and FWIW, they stick with the factory 10 mm bolt.

I went to sleep thinking about suspension bind decided I have no idea where its binding.

Bolts are bolts. I havent broke a 10mm or 9/16 and I ran the stock upper as a 3 link just to try . The arm bent but bolt Held strong.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Evan03 said:

I went to sleep thinking about suspension bind decided I have no idea where its binding.

Bolts are bolts. I havent broke a 10mm or 9/16 and I ran the stock upper as a 3 link just to try . The arm bent but bolt Held strong.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

It took me a while to wrap my head around the sources of binding.

So you bent an arm while running a 3-link setup? If yes, what were you doing when it happened?

With a factory upper it wouldn't take much of anything for that to happen, it shouldn't have even been tried!

Going slow crawling. Stock upper and adjustable lower. Both short arms. Ran it just enough to bend ut then tear it down to do longer arms.

My lowers are now. 32" upper is 25"

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Evan03 said:

Going slow crawling. Stock upper and adjustable lower. Both short arms. Ran it just enough to bend ut then tear it down to do longer arms.

My lowers are now. 32" upper is 25"

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Talk about horrible lengths for binding!!!

How would you have any idea?


Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk