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  #16  
Old January 18th, 2019, 09:34
arto_wa arto_wa is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

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Originally Posted by arto_wa View Post
...............you will need 3/8 inch drive size E12 "inverse Torx socket", universal joint and couple of 3/8 extensions.



The proper official name is "External Torx Socket"


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  #17  
Old January 19th, 2019, 19:35
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

There is a lot of good advice in this thread!

I want to toss in a few things that have not been mentioned, that have more to do with choosing your battles.



1) Keep the Genie in the bottle! If you can get around opening a sealed system, don't open it! If you look at the picture, you can see I left the AC, Power Steering, and Fuel systems intact. That saved time and money at reassembly.

2) In this case, leave the transmission in the vehicle. I have pulled more that a few of these engines, installed a few less. Leaving the transmission (mostly) in place saves time at reassembly. A few methods have been suggested for leaving the transmission in the vehicle, they will work. I purchased 2 bolts (10mx1.5, longest on hand) to hold the transmission crossmember in a lowered position while I removed the bell housing bolts and separated the block from the bell housing. I did not commit a hydraulic jack to holding the front of the transmission. I used a jack stand and block of wood under the transmission pan to stabilize that assembly through the reinstallation of the replacement engine.

3) GUIDE STUDS!!!!!! The first time i was told about this (by my brother), I thought "DUH! Why didn't I invent this?" Whatever size bolts mate the block to the bellhousing, buy 2 of the same size/thread, longest on hand, at your local hardware. Cut the heads off the bolts and thread the newly created studs into the block. When it is time to mate the engine and transmission, you have a rough guide that will hold some of the weight, and help guide the assemblies to critical alignment. Yes, this works both ways...
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  #18  
Old January 20th, 2019, 21:52
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4x4JeePmaNthINg 4x4JeePmaNthINg is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

One thing I'm not having an easy time finding is what bolts are removed to leave the torque converter in the trans? I've read this is preferable

Do the mate back together easily?
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  #19  
Old January 21st, 2019, 05:28
RCP Phx RCP Phx is online now
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

Removing the torque converter bolts in easy and the re-installation is just as easy.
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  #20  
Old January 21st, 2019, 07:30
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

The auto trans engine swaps that I have done have all been V-8 GM stuff, but I expect the XJ to be pretty similar. Probably 3 bolts out toward the perimeter of the flexplate. With the inspection cover removed you will be able to access one of the three. You will need to rotate the engine to get to each of the others. I have used a large flat heat screw driver to rotate the engine, using it as a lever with the tip engaged in between teeth of the flexplate, prying against the bottom flange of the block. A ratchet with a socket on the bolt for the harmonic balancer could work too. Probably easiest if you pull the spark plugs.

As you pull the engine make sure the torque converter is staying behind, and after the engine is out run a piece of rope/paracord/wire through a couple of bellhousing bolts just to make sure the torque converter doesn't get any ideas of its own while you are later working in the engine bay trying to improve something you see you have easy access to at the moment.

On reinstallation it will be easy to rotate the torque converter to line up the first of the three bolts, and then again you will need to rotate the engine in order to access the other two, one at a time.

This will probably look far more straightforward once you are actually looking at the situation.
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  #21  
Old January 21st, 2019, 10:07
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

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Originally Posted by Anak View Post
The auto trans engine swaps that I have done have all been V-8 GM stuff, but I expect the XJ to be pretty similar. Probably 3 bolts out toward the perimeter of the flexplate. With the inspection cover removed you will be able to access one of the three.

4-bolts in this case, but yes remove the inspection cover on the front lower portion of the bellhousing and you'll see the bolts. Good advice on the string or strap to keep the t/c in place. Before you go to mate things up, make sure the t/c is fully engaged and seated in the transmission or you will damage the pump in the front of the transmission. When you put it in, keep rotating it as there are two sets of splines that need to engage. Per the FSM, the front face of the bolt lugs on the converter should be at least 1/2" below the front face of the bellhousing - mine was closer to 3/4". After everything is bolted back up, there should still be a little forward-back movement of the t/c - mine is about 3/16". If you can't get the bellhousing to pull up tight, stop and check the t/c isn't bound up by not being seated, or that you pinched the breather tube in there like I did.
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  #22  
Old January 21st, 2019, 20:18
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4x4JeePmaNthINg 4x4JeePmaNthINg is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anak View Post

As you pull the engine make sure the torque converter is staying behind, and after the engine is out run a piece of rope/paracord/wire through a couple of bellhousing bolts just to make sure the torque converter doesn't get any ideas of its own while you are later working in the engine bay trying to improve something you see you have easy access to at the moment.

On reinstallation it will be easy to rotate the torque converter to line up the first of the three bolts, and then again you will need to rotate the engine in order to access the other two, one at time.
I take you mean kinda seatbelt the tc in?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
4-bolts in this case, but yes remove the inspection cover on the front lower portion of the bellhousing and you'll see the bolts. Good advice on the string or strap to keep the t/c in place. Before you go to mate things up, make sure the t/c is fully engaged and seated in the transmission or you will damage the pump in the front of the transmission. When you put it in, keep rotating it as there are two sets of splines that need to engage. Per the FSM, the front face of the bolt lugs on the converter should be at least 1/2" below the front face of the bellhousing - mine was closer to 3/4". After everything is bolted back up, there should still be a little forward-back movement of the t/c - mine is about 3/16". If you can't get the bellhousing to pull up tight, stop and check the t/c isn't bound up by not being seated, or that you pinched the breather tube in there like I did.
Lawsoncl,

-Does the Tc simply push in/ slip/ slide?
I need to find more pictures of this because I don't fully understand how all this is joined together.

- will I be able to feel this engage or am I just turning until it measures 1/2" below the bellhousing mating surface?

-how should I be able to tell this forward/ back 3/16th movement after everything is bolted up?

To update I have disassembled everything other than:

.NSS
.transfer case plug & breather
Trans breather
. Whichever wire isn't the tc plug or nss, I'm uncertain what this goes to- driver side trans
maybe?
Do these need to be unpluged to lower the trans to pull the engine? Is lowering the trans(auto)mandatory to get accesd to e12, is this standard procedure?

. Transfer case and trans shift linkages( i hope these are easy remove/install)


Please ask and double check if you think I might be missing anything, I'm going off what I can see.


Lastly I do not have a Fsm obviously, currently no computer, nor room on my phone to download, however

Does the FSM clearly walk you through removal & Install?

Thanks all I'm sure I'll have more ?s,


Today I've picked up a replacement from another member. Just need to get the old one out and some helpers.

Last edited by 4x4JeePmaNthINg; January 21st, 2019 at 20:19. Reason: Auto spell dunt spelt gud
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  #23  
Old January 21st, 2019, 20:54
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

The torque converter just slides into the transmission and has a couple of notches on it which need to engage inside the transmission. It is the sort of thing where you slide it in, give it a quarter turn or so and it will slide in another inch or so. The difference between engaged/not engaged is substantial. It is not as if there where only 1/8" or so of difference between the two positions.

After you remove the four bolts connection the TC to the flexplate, but before you separate the bell housing from the engine block simply take the time to note where the torque converter is relative to the rest of the bell housing. Note how far back you can push it (odds are once you unbolt the TC you will be able to slide it back a fraction of an inch). That is where you want it to be before you try to drop in the new engine.

And yes, the idea of a strap/rope/whatever is just to keep the TC from coming off the transmission while you are working in the engine bay. If it comes off it is likely to do so in a most un-graceful fashion and inspire you to curse its provenance. And you will probably have a mess of ATF to clean up too. Just remember to remove the strap/rope/whatever before you attempt to drop in the new motor.
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  #24  
Old January 21st, 2019, 21:47
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4x4JeePmaNthINg 4x4JeePmaNthINg is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anak View Post
The torque converter just slides into the transmission and has a couple of notches on it which need to engage inside the transmission. It is the sort of thing where you slide it in, give it a quarter turn or so and it will slide in another inch or so. The difference between engaged/not engaged is substantial. It is not as if there where only 1/8" or so of difference between the two positions.

After you remove the four bolts connection the TC to the flexplate, but before you separate the bell housing from the engine block simply take the time to note where the torque converter is relative to the rest of the bell housing. Note how far back you can push it (odds are once you unbolt the TC you will be able to slide it back a fraction of an inch). That is where you want it to be before you try to drop in the new engine.

And yes, the idea of a strap/rope/whatever is just to keep the TC from coming off the transmission while you are working in the engine bay. If it comes off it is likely to do so in a most un-graceful fashion and inspire you to curse its provenance. And you will probably have a mess of ATF to clean up too. Just remember to remove the strap/rope/whatever before you attempt to drop in the new motor.
Clockwise or counter clockwise? And I should be able to get hands on this with the flexplate there?
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  #25  
Old January 21st, 2019, 21:51
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

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Originally Posted by 4x4JeePmaNthINg View Post
Clockwise or counter clockwise? And I should be able to get hands on this with the flexplate there?

Doesn't matter, and yes there is enough room once the inspection cover is removed to see and touch the t/c itself.
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  #26  
Old January 21st, 2019, 21:58
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

I doubt it would matter which direction. It is just notches, not threads. Kind of like how a distributor engages with an oil pump. It is a very simple connection. Imagine taking a piece of 2" diameter pipe and cutting a pair of square sections out of the end, 180 degrees apart. When those square voids align with the pump then the pipe can slide the rest of the way home.

All my swaps involving automatics have been GM. I am not sure what sort of access the AW4 will give you, but I expect that from one angle or another you will be able to get a sense of how far back the TC needs to be relative to the bell housing or some other fixed point.
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  #27  
Old January 22nd, 2019, 14:47
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

Too bad you're in colorado, I have a good 4.0 motor and trans in boston I'm trying to get rid of. attatched to the car and everything
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  #28  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 16:17
arto_wa arto_wa is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

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Originally Posted by 4x4JeePmaNthINg View Post
..................................Does the FSM clearly walk you through removal & Install?.........................



You can find Haynes paperback manual (ISBN 1563924005) for about $10 at Amazon (or any local auto parts shop).


It covers Jeep Cherokee 1984 - 2000, or I can email you FSM pdf "engine removal" file if you send me a private message. It's only 45 KB file.
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  #29  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 16:20
arto_wa arto_wa is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

The FSM gives step by step instruction on engine removal & installation.
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  #30  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 16:41
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4x4JeePmaNthINg 4x4JeePmaNthINg is offline
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Re: Engine swap vs shop

Are all aw4 flexplates the same, any reason use need to swap my old one?

How do you torque these without the engine spinning?
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