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JeepSpeed and Front Long Arms

Root Moose

NAXJA Forum User
Location
ON, Canada
Without getting into the specifics of which vendor makes what...

For high speed driving like in JeepSpeed racing...

Does the loss of an adjusting caster curve on a radius arm type setup really give anything up to a 3+ link long arm setup where caster can change?
 
Anyone?
 
I know nothing about JeepSpeed. I want to learn more though.... That style of driving doesn't exist much in Colorado, at least in the Pikes Peak area (yes, yes I know the hill climb, but that doesn't count) so I am pretty unaware of anything and everything about racing an XJ.
 
What got me wondering about this was this thread:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=99649

Basically, the idea is that radius arms ride better on highway than short arms and drop brackets.

That to me seems, well, non-intuitive. Sure, radius arms are long enough to minimize the expected pluses of caster/camber gain at highway speeds but still...

The only thing I can think is that perhaps the DB'ed Jeeps referenced in that thread have DBs that are not long enough for the amount of lift on them. Or, there are other issues like spring rates, tires, alignment, etc. at play.

What says the collective? Speculations?
 
If you are asking, for high speed driving purposes, if a 36 inch long radius arm is inferior to a 36 inch long 3 or 4 link, the answer is no. I've had both, and driven both at fairly high speeds (65 tops in the dirt), and there is very little difference. Shocks and spring rate selection is FAR more important.

You can pretty easily calculate the caster change of a radius arm set up over the length of travel. Figure, on a 14" travel shock, 8" down and 6" up, start with 6 degrees of caster. It's not much.
 
i drive mine with the clayton arms real fast all the time and it does great... and my front DS will be in much better shape at droop
 
Not to get off topic or hijack this thread, but how are you guys finding the proper spring rate and shock selection for your application.

I just installed a clayton long arm conversion for the front and got rid of my RE drop brackets and short arms. I have the 5.5" lift kit thats four years old now and 1.75" coil spacers on the front springs because of my heavy winch bumper.

I would like to take out the coil spacers and still be able to stuff my 35's with a respectable amount of droop; I jsut dont know much about spring and shock selection to get the right results.

FYI- My front shocks are Old Man Emu LT35's and I have the RE ZJ 4.5" lift coils.
 
Um, it's a 2 year old thread.

So we can teach people to search, but they aren't able to ask questions when they find related tech???
 
A fair amount of the guys out this way seem to like Skyjacker 8" coils, maybe cut down a little, for go-fast driving in rock crawlers with winches and bumpers.

Bilstein 7100 shocks are adjustable so you can tune them until you like the ride and handling.
 
Thanks to those of you who perfer to post relative information instead of resorting to flame every person who posts. There is no need to fill up all the threads with nonsence like that. My question has grounds for reason.

Back on topic,
PHil- What size bilstiein's do you run, travel? How is the on road handling?

I found a pretty wide range of opinions on this and thats why im asking. I want to get the ride dialed in since this is the third syspension change and hopefully the last one.

Does anyone run the Tomken coils that have a tappered upper section. This seems like it would offer variable spring rate due to the dia. and pitch differences?
 
I just run the 5150 Bilsteins, 12" front, 8"(?) rear, stiff valving. They're great on and off road.

I run Rubicon Express springs all around.
 
Thanks to those of you who perfer to post relative information instead of resorting to flame every person who posts.
Quit your wanking, you have obviously never been "flamed" before if you think you were flamed.(although I do commend you for searching prior:))

Back on topic......deaver makes progressive rate coils that work well, the skyjacker 8" springs trimmed down also work really well if you are looking for stiffer. My old set-up was Skyjacker 8" coil springs with bilstein short body 7100's 12" trvl with 275/78 valving, it worked really well. So you never really mentioned what terrain you are building for. You should take the springs out and cycle your suspension and see where/what is limiting your travel, measure shock mounts and buy appropriate shocks.
Good luck
 
Humm, ive never heard of Deaver suspension. They dont have much info on their site about progressive rate coils, do you have any experience with their products?
 
Humm, ive never heard of Deaver suspension. They dont have much info on their site about progressive rate coils, do you have any experience with their products?
Dang, what rock have you been under:) Haha, J/k. Deaver is basically cream of the crop as far as leaf packs go(most leaf sprung dez race trucks use deavers), I have a set of the progressive rate coils but haven't put them to the test yet, the leaf packs are second to none in my opinion. Either way hope you get it sorted out, my truck actually went through three completely different suspension set-ups before I was finally happy with it.........and sold it:(.
Good luck
 
if youve never heard of deaver, you should stop building a jeepspeed right now.
if your looking for a progressive rate coil... call deaver, they make one especially FOR jeepspeeders. and theyre great to deal with(shipping times are AWESOME for me, living in LA)

do your research holmes. spring rates are pretty much deceided by the vendors, luckily jeeps are popular, and plenty of people make coils for xjs... ditch the winch/heavy ass bumper~! it will only complicate things/slow you down.

shock valving is another deal, you might try searching for info on that, but basically, any good racing shock can be custom valved to your preferance when you buy it. so make sure you buy shocks from someone who deals with a lot of shock valving., another reason to go with a good racing shock
 
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'Ran BITD Vegas to Reno with a friend in an MJ last month. We learned a LOT. Mainly, the "go fast" guys use an entirely different setup then the trail/4WD and rock guys.
If you read the rule books for the different classes, most of them have suspension travel limits. Example: BITD class 7100 10" max front suspension travel.
Also, most of the class rules require "stock style/type" suspensions or "stock parts: may be modified for strength. In other words: If it came from the factory with a 4-link, it runs with a 4-link.
The whole point of the long arm kit is to increase travel, usually because you're trying to crawl over a 3 foot tall rock. In desert racing, you drive around the tall rocks.(or drift around them, as the case may be)

Jeepspeed rules allow any suspension arms that are widely commercially available, keep the axle within about 1" of the stock location, and are "factory type" ie: 4-Link There are a couple long arm kits approved for use.

Our truck was a BITD Class 7100 entry: "Stock mini truck, modified" We were running against a butt load of Ford Rangers.

The front suspension setup was:
Roughly 3" lift, combination spring and spacer
33" tires on 15" wheels
Stock control arms
Stock track bar
Stock sway bar, connected
2.5" dia. remote res. shocks(14"travel)
Limit straps set at 10"

Rear was:
Spring under axle
Deaver springs
No sway bar
2.5" dia, 16" remote res. fox shocks
'Don't remember what the limit straps were set at.

http://durkadurka.net/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewImage=23427
Our top speed was over 70mph, and the suspension worked great. While he is making some changes to the truck, the only change to the front end is new bump stops(trying to figure out a cheap way to get hydro bump stops in there)
 
All the Jeepspeed stuff is interesting and I would love to one day build one, but that is not nearly my goal for this XJ.

I am building this for trail riding and occasional rock crawling here on the east coast. I have been looking into progressive rate coils to achieve a better on road ride since it is my daily driver. Dont get me wrong, id love to be able to drop 2k on a sick racing shock setup but thats pretty much out of the question with me still working on my undergrad and tuition rates on the rise.

Thanks for the info, ill post an updated pic once I get it setup.
 
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