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  #1  
Old May 7th, 2005, 19:24
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riverfever riverfever is offline
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Dumb question

OK...do you think that a diverse community yields tolerance towards others or is education more important?
I'm a teacher and we've been talking about Colonial Times. New England Colonies were very diverse and this led to religeous and cultural tolerance. My area of St. Louis has lots of different cultures. We also have houses that are so close in the city you can hear your neighbor fart. I hate it here b/c we can't have the windows open due to the neighbors drinking on the porch and yelling to the wee hours of the morning. The cars blaze down the street like Pit Row. To me thats not tolerance or respect. I keep my yard clean out of respect for my neighbors and b/c it helps everyones property values.
We were trying to figure out if this would happen in the small towns in CO we are looking to move to. I would assume that people living in small towns are there to get away from the hustle and so there it's less likely. Also...in a town of 2500, how long could it take the cops to pinpoint a troublemaker and deal with it?
Maybe I'm the one who's not tolerant of others? Maybe I'm talking about 2 different things here. Can't wait to be a CO resident. I don't think that the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm sure there will be some similarities and there will def. be some things that rub me the wrong way. Humidity won't be one of them. I'll be able to enjoy my summers off outside instead inside the AC. This might not make sense...kinda like Deep Thoughts with Jack Handy.

Last edited by riverfever; May 7th, 2005 at 19:42.
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  #2  
Old May 7th, 2005, 19:37
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Re: Dumb question

It's tough living in a melting pot because some is always stirring it up...
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  #3  
Old May 7th, 2005, 19:49
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Re: Dumb question

I don't think happiness is a location. I also don't think happiness is being accepted by others. I do believe happiness is found in a healthy lifestyle and living with basic fundamentals and values. That starts at home. Many people live in "good" communities and aren't happy within their walls at home. So, if your family is happy at home, that is what needs to be embraced. On the other hand, striving to make a better earning, to live in a less violent community is not wrong either. A better environment upon which to grow in education and family. good luck.

...BOB
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  #4  
Old May 7th, 2005, 21:10
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverfever
OK...do you think that a diverse community yields tolerance towards others or is education more important?
I'm a teacher and we've been talking about Colonial Times. New England Colonies were very diverse and this led to religeous and cultural tolerance.
Wrong.

Colonial New England communities were anything BUT culturally diverse. Most New England towns (and states) were founded by people of particular religious sects, generally sects not tolerated in England and thus looking for a place to avoid persecution. They were generally very strictly dogmatic.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees religious freedom because despite the fact the founding states were generally religiously-based, different states were predominated by different religions (denominations) and they were smart enough to recognize that what they had in common was a wish not to be persecuted. That was more important to them than having one particular denomination enshrined as the official government religion.

Oh -- my qualifications for holding this view: my ancestors founded the (New England) town of Windsor, Connecticut. I attended Trinity College, in Hartford -- which was founded as a Episcopalian school. Yale University was founded in Branford, Connecticut, as a seminary for Congregationalist ministers. It moved to New Haven later on.
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Last edited by Eagle; May 7th, 2005 at 21:13.
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  #5  
Old May 7th, 2005, 21:13
Tom R. Tom R. is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Tolerance is such an overused and abused word these days. After reading your post I think a better word might be consideration. Tolerance doesn't mean we must accept all behavior, simple because all behavior is not beneficial to a society. Consideration means giving thoughtful and sympathetic regard to others and potential consequences before we act. Lack of consideration often means a lack of maturity and common decency.

Everything has pros and cons.....where you live, size of the town, etc....they all have their pluses and minuses. You may need to make a priority list and aim for those things that are most important to you and accept that you might not meet the things at the bottom of your list. I've lived and made long term visits to many places in the U.S. and overseas and I can say with certainty that some places, at least for me, are much better than others. Of course, I look at these places from the point view of raising a family. If you're a single person who likes to go disco dancing, then your goal will likely be different.

BTW, you're spot on Eagle. I had something written to this effect, but deleted it. I couldn't have said it better anyway.
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  #6  
Old May 7th, 2005, 21:22
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle
Wrong.

Colonial New England communities were anything BUT culturally diverse. Most New England towns (and states) were founded by people of particular religious sects, generally sects not tolerated in England and thus looking for a place to avoid persecution. They were generally very strictly dogmatic.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees religious freedom because despite the fact the founding states were generally religiously-based, different states were predominated by different religions (denominations) and they were smart enough to recognize that what they had in common was a wish not to be persecuted. That was more important to them than having one particular denomination enshrined as the official government religion.

Oh -- my qualifications for holding this view: my ancestors founded the (New England) town of Windsor, Connecticut. I attended Trinity College, in Hartford -- which was founded as a Episcopalian school. Yale University was founded in Branford, Connecticut, as a seminary for Congregationalist ministers. It moved to New Haven later on.
Good point Eagle. I'm not a Social Studies teacher but a Special Ed. teacher. We were reading something the other day that totally contradicts you. But...I KNOW that's why earlier settlers came to the New World...so it seems logical that they would be less tolerant.

And yes...maybe tolerant isn't the right word to use.
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  #7  
Old May 7th, 2005, 21:26
Captain Ron Captain Ron is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Correct.

Dumb Q.

Get out and live.

Preferably some where out side of the US.

Just for contrast...

--ron

PS: You could always sue.
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  #8  
Old May 7th, 2005, 21:35
Tom R. Tom R. is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron
Get out and live.

Preferably some where out side of the US.

Just for contrast...

--ron
This is so true. It really puts things in perspective when you've lived outside the U.S.
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  #9  
Old May 8th, 2005, 05:00
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom R.
This is so true. It really puts things in perspective when you've lived outside the U.S.
For sure, one of the downsides of not having the draft anymore and all those overseas bases that we had, well over 2,000 of them, is that alot of younger people have never experienced life outside the US. Going on vacations does not qualify as 'having been there'. Those organized trips ensure that the customer does not view, experience, suffer any ugly reality of the country they are visiting.
As my dad said on a trip to spain in 83, they were in madrid for 3 nites and late one nite my dad heard explosions, the unmistakable thump thump thump of the ma duce with the higher chatter of small arms, fairly close too. When he asked about it at the desk the next morning the clerk said with a straight face that it must have been cars backfiring. Don't want to upset the tourists....
In 76 in rota I watched a gardia stich a purse snatcher with his 9mm smg from 40 ft, walk over, pick the purse up, hand it back to the woman and walk away, leaving the body for someone else to take care of, he just continued his rounds. In subic bay I had gate duty one nite, bunch of skimmer swabbies were walking back in over the bridge when a young child, 11 or 12, grabbed one of their wallets [sailors in whites carry their bill fold over their belt, half inside and half outside, no pockets in dress whites ], the local police sitting at the gate in a quarter ton took off and chased the kid across the bridge, passenger just stuck out a 3ft riot baton and broke the kids neck, stopped, picked up the wallet, turned around and drove back, gave the wallet back to the sailor and parked where they had been 30 seconds before. From what the master at arms told us it was a pretty common event
The chances of seeing that as a tourist are almost nill, alot of countries will have a 'sweep' by the local lawenforcement just prior to a tourist event that is nothing short of brutal.
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  #10  
Old May 8th, 2005, 08:22
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sidriptide sidriptide is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverfever
My area of St. Louis has lots of different cultures. We also have houses that are so close in the city you can hear your neighbor fart. I hate it here b/c we can't have the windows open due to the neighbors drinking on the porch and yelling to the wee hours of the morning. The cars blaze down the street like Pit Row. To me thats not tolerance or respect. I keep my yard clean out of respect for my neighbors and b/c it helps everyones property values. .
you must be LAWN CHER's neighbor... now i see where the MWC gets their bad rap from...

anyways.. i dont think that the general lack of respect that we as americans so-often demonstrate comes from the religious back-grounds of our forefathers.. at least not directly. it stems from us constantly reminding ourselves that we are a free country and can "do as we please"..... that opens up so many doors for ass-hats to over-step common moral boundaries..
home is where you make it my friend... and what you MAKE OF IT....
a little town in Co sounds nice, (i'm even contemplating the same move in the future) but it won't be perfecttown..
make your move and make the best of it.. if you don't you'll "what if" yourself forever...
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  #11  
Old May 8th, 2005, 08:36
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle
Wrong.

Colonial New England communities were anything BUT culturally diverse. Most New England towns (and states) were founded by people of particular religious sects, generally sects not tolerated in England and thus looking for a place to avoid persecution. They were generally very strictly dogmatic.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees religious freedom because despite the fact the founding states were generally religiously-based, different states were predominated by different religions (denominations) and they were smart enough to recognize that what they had in common was a wish not to be persecuted. That was more important to them than having one particular denomination enshrined as the official government religion.

Oh -- my qualifications for holding this view: my ancestors founded the (New England) town of Windsor, Connecticut. I attended Trinity College, in Hartford -- which was founded as a Episcopalian school. Yale University was founded in Branford, Connecticut, as a seminary for Congregationalist ministers. It moved to New Haven later on.
It sucked being a witch back then too... right Eagle?

I always wondered...if they really were witches, why didn't they turn all the hateful townsfolk into toads or something BEFORE they got dunked? I would have.
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  #12  
Old May 8th, 2005, 16:23
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Re: Dumb question

I'm always amused by the absurd use of the term "tolerance". I'd rather understand than tolerate. "Tolerance" seems to me to be an acceptance of ignorance, with a little smug condescencion mixed in.

I live in a nice working-class neighborhood in Charlottesville, VA. It's relatively quiet, a regular forest between the buildings and small parking areas. The area is known as Embassy row among the locals. My 5 year old son's best friend is a recent (3 years ago) immigrant from Albania, he plays soccer every day with the neighbor kids from Somalia, and this doesn't even begin to represent the cultural diversity of the area. The only time our neighborhood gets "loud" is on sunny afternoons when all the kids are out playing, and it's music to my ears.

Now, my admission: I was an "ignorant white man" when we moved in. I was a bit bewildered and concerned by the vast mix of languages and dress, but I got over it when my kid was able to make friends, play and communicate (somehow) with a kid he'd met 5 seconds before who spoke about 3 words of English. It's beautiful to watch, kids only see other kids to play with, not cultures, religions or skin color.

I've got some pretty stupid ideas burned into my brain about "foreigners", but I'll be damned if I'll pass them on. God willing, we can all be "childish" one day.
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  #13  
Old May 8th, 2005, 16:49
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Lawn Cher' Lawn Cher' is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidriptide
you must be LAWN CHER's neighbor... now i see where the MWC gets their bad rap from...
As if ... Actually, RiverFever would be much happier if he were my neighbor. I live about as far outside the city as you can get and still have suburban conveniences. The houses are spread out, its a quiet neighborhood, everyone waves at each other. As a matter of fact just last night I was hanging out at a bonfire in one of my neighbor's yards... haven't had that much fun since Winterfest.

The starts at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Wentzville.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruteXJ
I've got some pretty stupid ideas burned into my brain about "foreigners", but I'll be damned if I'll pass them on. God willing, we can all be "childish" one day.
That is truly a wonderful sentiment. Bravo!

Last edited by Lawn Cher'; May 8th, 2005 at 16:57.
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  #14  
Old May 8th, 2005, 17:57
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riverfever riverfever is offline
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Re: Dumb question

Don't get me wrong here...I hope I didn't say what I meant the wrong way. The diversity is good with me...I just don't like the rudeness, regardless of ethnicity. I probably should have chosen a beter word. And the people are not the only reason for a big move. I love to trout fish and we just don't have too many opportunities for that here. Tough to drive to Rolla after work for a hook up. The weather is also a biggie. Gray days and hot, muggy summers. I know nothing will ever be perfect. Actually, if I were to stay here I probably would head out to Lawn Chers neck of the woods where the real estate is good but it's just not far enough west.
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  #15  
Old May 8th, 2005, 18:04
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Re: Dumb question

Colorado sounds perfect for you.
I hear they've made being rude and mean illegal.
I've also heard they have a curfew.
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