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  #121  
Old April 23rd, 2018, 19:12
Royal Nonesuch Royal Nonesuch is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by randy57 View Post
What were your fuel trims?
Did it loop open/closed back and forth on cold start?
Wish I could find a new o2 sensor that didn't have the pre-heating element.
Fuel trims were OK in the beginning, but slowly started to creep high. As it failed, I noted it would open/close on cold but eventually just stuck open.
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  #122  
Old May 1st, 2018, 16:47
randy57 randy57 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I put in a sensor found on 89 in the junk yard. Out of the three one showed ohms but was not 5-7.

It does not cause a battery draw. But after installing it my A/C clutch started working.

I will do the tests as suggested and post the results.

Also bought one another on ebay, (hopefully the image of it can be seen), looked identical to my original one. It too caused a parasitic draw. I guess you cant tell by looking at them if they will work or not.
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  #123  
Old May 1st, 2018, 16:49
randy57 randy57 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

Image didnt load. here is the url for the one I ppurchased. https://www.ebay.com/itm/132141445881
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  #124  
Old September 17th, 2018, 12:43
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I have discovered that there is a diode on the AC clutch power, and two of them on the E-fan feed. Seems there are two paths that can power the Renix e-fans, one comes from the power feed to the AC clutch. That may be a clue to your AC clutch anomalies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by randy57 View Post
It was interesting to note for me that right at the same time I was getting parasitic draw from the sensors my A/C clutch stopped engaging. Even after removing them.

I bought a bosch and Walker sensors that matched the one I had before all my troubles started, white body, perforations on tip, Hole in the end with a flat bar insided. Both caused parasitic draw.

I got 3 junk yard sensors from 88-89 renix jeeps. No parasitic draw from any of them. 2 of which I got no ohms reading. 3rd one got 3.7 ohms.

After installing the one with the 3.7 ohms reading, no parastic draw and A/C clutch now engages.

While engine is cold loop would switch open/closed, but only till it warmed up, then it stayed on open loop.

Parasitic draw is obviously caused by the sensors having a heating element. Have no idea as to why they affected my A/C clutch.
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34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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  #125  
Old October 9th, 2018, 20:21
randy57 randy57 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

After installing the apparent good o2 sensor the ac clutch engages and have not had an issue with the ac since.
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  #126  
Old January 12th, 2019, 08:46
Cwburrell Cwburrell is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I’m having trouble with my 89 yj starting in cold weather. It will fire but won’t stay running until I’ve cranked it 6 or 8 times and then it’s still very cold natured. I checked the IAT sensor and coolant sensor and they are both good. I replaced the throttle position sensor. I followed the O2 sensor troubleshooting detailed by ecomike earlier in this thread and discovered that I do not have the 5v coming from the ECM to the O2 sensor. Does this mean I have a bad ECM? Where do I go from here?
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  #127  
Old January 12th, 2019, 20:33
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I would suspect damaged wire, or connections first.

Are you testing the correct wire for the 5 Volts?

Are you testing it while connecting to the O2 sensor? If yes, disconnect the O2 sensor and test the ground and the 5 Volt wire from the ECU next.

The if needed test them again at the ECU before declaring the ECU to be the problem. Never heard of a Renix ECU being bad on that 5 volt feed.

But FYI, a normal Renix with everything working right has a no need for a working O2 sensor to start and idle well cold, or hot. Disconnect the sensor and see if it has other issues?

Have you tested and cleaned all the sensor grounds yet????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwburrell View Post
Iím having trouble with my 89 yj starting in cold weather. It will fire but wonít stay running until Iíve cranked it 6 or 8 times and then itís still very cold natured. I checked the IAT sensor and coolant sensor and they are both good. I replaced the throttle position sensor. I followed the O2 sensor troubleshooting detailed by ecomike earlier in this thread and discovered that I do not have the 5v coming from the ECM to the O2 sensor. Does this mean I have a bad ECM? Where do I go from here?
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Quote=8Mud: "Go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars of nails and a pile of scrap lumber."
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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  #128  
Old January 12th, 2019, 20:55
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devildog0 devildog0 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

Poor fuel mileage continues.

Crawled under and ran tests on the wiring. Signal wire shows good swing from .1 to .88 at idle volts I think I saw .9 for a split second. Heater wire shows battery voltage, grounds are under 1 ohm.

IAT and Coolant temp sensors have been tested and found to be in spec.

I'm about to do a smoke test on the intake, vacuum and evap systems and if that doesn't show anything I'll test the MAP sensor guess I'll need to get a hand vacuum pump to really test that?

I guess it could be a no good O2 sensor straight out of the box. I know now the NTK sensors are the preferred ones, I went with a Bosch as I had done in the past before I foudnout about the NTK deal.
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2004 Suzuki DL650 VStrom/1978 Suzuki GS1000E/2003 Yamaha TW200
1982 Suzuki GS850G (barnfind project)
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  #129  
Old January 13th, 2019, 19:31
Cwburrell Cwburrell is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

[QUOTE=Ecomike;246625038]I would suspect damaged wire, or connections first.

Are you testing the correct wire for the 5 Volts?

Are you testing it while connecting to the O2 sensor? If yes, disconnect the O2 sensor and test the ground and the 5 Volt wire from the ECU next.

The if needed test them again at the ECU before declaring the ECU to be the problem. Never heard of a Renix ECU being bad on that 5 volt feed.

But FYI, a normal Renix with everything working right has a no need for a working O2 sensor to start and idle well cold, or hot. Disconnect the sensor and see if it has other issues?

Have you tested and cleaned all the sensor grounds yet????[/QUOTE

I was testing with the sensor unplugged and was getting 12v supply on one wire, and ground on the black wire which I traced all the way back to the sensor heater where it physically attached to ground but no 5v on the third wire. What other sensor grounds would you be referring to? Unplugging the O2 sensor does not seem to change anything when starting cold. Iíll try to get under the dash and check at the ECM.
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  #130  
Old January 13th, 2019, 19:48
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwburrell View Post
Unplugging the O2 sensor does not seem to change anything when starting cold. Iíll try to get under the dash and check at the ECM.
That is revealing right there. Obviously an issue with the ECM and or the wire from the ECU to the O2 sensor.

Cold start issue could be many things at this point, but I would solve the 5Volt wire/ECU first and see if the cold start issue is still there or not.
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Quote=8Mud: "Go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars of nails and a pile of scrap lumber."
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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  #131  
Old January 13th, 2019, 19:53
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

IF you have an analog high impedance meter, it should narrow down to a tight range in closed loop at 2500 rpm, like .35 to .55 V with a very tight rapid swing. Any codes? Define poor mpg and any mods....

On HO rigs, I have never heard anything good about any O2 sensors except NTK. Is the exhaust manifold cracked????

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog0 View Post
Poor fuel mileage continues.

Crawled under and ran tests on the wiring. Signal wire shows good swing from .1 to .88 at idle volts I think I saw .9 for a split second. Heater wire shows battery voltage, grounds are under 1 ohm.

IAT and Coolant temp sensors have been tested and found to be in spec.

I'm about to do a smoke test on the intake, vacuum and evap systems and if that doesn't show anything I'll test the MAP sensor guess I'll need to get a hand vacuum pump to really test that?

I guess it could be a no good O2 sensor straight out of the box. I know now the NTK sensors are the preferred ones, I went with a Bosch as I had done in the past before I foudnout about the NTK deal.
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Quote=8Mud: "Go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars of nails and a pile of scrap lumber."
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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  #132  
Old January 16th, 2019, 11:19
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devildog0 devildog0 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecomike View Post
IF you have an analog high impedance meter, it should narrow down to a tight range in closed loop at 2500 rpm, like .35 to .55 V with a very tight rapid swing. Any codes? Define poor mpg and any mods....

On HO rigs, I have never heard anything good about any O2 sensors except NTK. Is the exhaust manifold cracked????
13.266MPG overall average (with a 75/25 mix of Highway/City driving) with one outlier of 11.2mpg (on 5th fill up) and one of 16.6mpg (straight highway for a whole tank)

Mods
235 tires
"Upcountry" suspension
2 inch reciever hitches front and rear
No armor or aftermarket bumpers or anything like that

Parts replaced so far,
Full tune up with air filter, plugs, cap, rotor, wires ect
O2 sensor with the aforementioned Bosch
Both CCV Elbows
Sections of nylon vacuum line that had cracks.

Waiting to be replaced,
New STANT t-stat with OEM Mopar TSTAT because I'm getting huge temp swings currently so thinking that STANT may have been bad out of the box

Parts tested and checked good-
Coolant temp (in the thermostat housing)
Intake air temp
Vacuum (pulls 20-21 inches at idle with no fluctuation of the gauge)

Tests waiting to be done due to time
MAP sensor testing
Smoke testing of Vacuum, brake booster and EVAP systems. Doing the propane torch method showed nothing but I still want to do the smoke test.

No codes using the key on-off method of pulling OBD1 codes

I've attached a chart below from the app I use to keep track of mileage, service, ect. This is my 4th XJ and the only one so far that hasn't gotten high teens or even 20mpg on the highway.

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2004 Suzuki DL650 VStrom/1978 Suzuki GS1000E/2003 Yamaha TW200
1982 Suzuki GS850G (barnfind project)
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  #133  
Old January 16th, 2019, 12:07
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

If it is an OBD-I 1995, no one I know of has ever had any luck with the Bosch O2 sensor. They all say to use the NGK OEM version.

Cracked or leaking exhaust manifold (or gasket) screwing with O2 sensor data

Bad CTS, running to cold to go and stay closed loop

Dizzy timing issues, late spark....

slipping Transmission, no TC lock up.

Too much idle time at fast food lines, LOL.
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Quote=8Mud: "Go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars of nails and a pile of scrap lumber."
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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  #134  
Old January 16th, 2019, 12:23
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devildog0 devildog0 is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I'll pick up an NGK (or NTK?) O2 sensor they aren't that expensive.

I replaced the exhaust manifold as mentioned in my last post. And used an OEM gasket. No evidence of leak but again I'll be smoke testing it soon. Maybe tomorrow.

CTS Has been checked and based on FSM chart is good to go. I'll be replacing the less than 3 month old stant with an OEM thermostat hopefully today or tomorrow.

I'll double check my ignition timing I replaced the distributor seal a while back with an Oring but pretty sure I put it back in properly since I saw no change in how the Jeep ran or the fuel mileage.

Transmission shows no signs of slippage but passes all testing I can do per the AW4 manual without a pressure gauge.

I idle it long enough to load my gear for work and that's pretty much it.
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  #135  
Old January 16th, 2019, 12:38
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Ecomike Ecomike is offline
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Re: Testing Jeep O2, Oxygen sensors

I have seen 16 mpg highway and 10 mpg stop and go (fast food stops LOL) as a common range on mine.

What is/has been the operating engine temps?

Rad feed and outlet temps?

Any power issues? Like a partly blocked Cat?

NTK/NGK seem to be the same company.

The engine can run one tooth of indexing, the ECU compensates, and some 4.0 factory cams on the engines required special dizzy indexing. See Cruiser54's site and specs on indexing for optimum operation. Made a huge difference on mine. Also his use of a custom made window-in-the-dizzy-Cap makes it impossible to screw up the indexing.

Is your engine/ecu stuff all oem 1995?
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Quote=8Mud: "Go ahead and put up the best fence you can build, I'll bet on some Mexican with a few dollars of nails and a pile of scrap lumber."
34 MPG , '85 2WD Cherokee Pioneer with custom installed, 64 hp, 2.2 L Nissan SD22 Diesel 5 spd Manual; & 4 Renix XJs, '87 Wagoneer 4.0, 4WD, 89-Cherokee, 4WD, '87 Cherokee 2WD, & '89 Cherokee Pioneer 2WD, all 4dr. #2091
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