NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > Modified Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

Modified Tech Discussion Forum for Tech related discussion for Modified XJ's and MJ's.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old June 13th, 2018, 12:49
burntkat burntkat is offline
NAXJA Member #1145
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,162
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
I would think were already talking about a 231C. It would cost a lot more to buy a adapter to go 4L60-231J.
You'd be surprised how many people do it, though, out of not knowing better.

I believe he bought this truck already built- so while Clyde is a sharp cookie, not sure about the PO.
__________________
-89 S-10: SAS, D44s front/rear. 5.7L V8. 700R4 with 4L60E upgrades. Built in my driveway.
-90 XJ 4.0, AW4, 231J: Clayton's longarms, RE 5.5" coils, hybrid 6" leaf pack, 33/12.50/15" MTs, Rancho 99012s and 99624s, Tera HD SYE, custom sliders, BW flares. Rehabbing with D44s, RE spring packs, RE 4.5" coils, and ACOS.
-94 ZJ: Budget boost, 31s. The wife's DD.
-97 XJ: Son's DD. 4" lift, ACOS, 4" spring pack, Upcountry coils, 31s
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old June 13th, 2018, 12:54
burntkat burntkat is offline
NAXJA Member #1145
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,162
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRCM View Post
I'm not so sure I would run the planetary if it has had that black contaminated fluid in it.

I'd at least flush the dog pee out of it.

It may look good, but who knows when it will decide it is done.
This.

At the very least, the oil pump needs to be replaced. It may well have been the failure to begin with (I am betting that is the case).. the OP failed, the shift fork nylons melted, the fork gouged the component it contacts (drawing a blank- shift collar?) and frag went throughout the assembly.

New chain if it fails the slack test, new bearings and seals, OP, shift fork and nylons, and inspect everything within an inch of its life. If too much is questionable, consider sourcing another unit and transferring the SYE over. It will likely be a hard call- rebuild or replace the entire unit. I know you can find 231s cheap out here. Maybe time for an upgrade to the Rubi case? Of course an Atlas is always a possibility, but I think if that made much financial sense we'd probably be talking about a built TJ at the very least.
__________________
-89 S-10: SAS, D44s front/rear. 5.7L V8. 700R4 with 4L60E upgrades. Built in my driveway.
-90 XJ 4.0, AW4, 231J: Clayton's longarms, RE 5.5" coils, hybrid 6" leaf pack, 33/12.50/15" MTs, Rancho 99012s and 99624s, Tera HD SYE, custom sliders, BW flares. Rehabbing with D44s, RE spring packs, RE 4.5" coils, and ACOS.
-94 ZJ: Budget boost, 31s. The wife's DD.
-97 XJ: Son's DD. 4" lift, ACOS, 4" spring pack, Upcountry coils, 31s
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old June 13th, 2018, 14:37
clydefrog's Avatar
clydefrog clydefrog is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 458
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by burntkat View Post

I believe he bought this truck already built.
I built everything on the truck, its been in my family since '93 (assuming your talking about mine). It became mine in 2013 when i asked my dad for it (it was sitting in his field growing weeds and full of water). Thats why i want to keep the existing t-case since i know where its been etc...


Also this t-case is really wierd. According the numbers stamped on the side it is an AMC 231.



I was considering an atlas, then my dog ate something so yeah.....

__________________
'87 with over 300k miles, and a CA legal LS swap.
Expedition built: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1129315

When you want to be someone you drive a lifted JK, when you already know who you are you drive an old XJ.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old June 13th, 2018, 14:48
clydefrog's Avatar
clydefrog clydefrog is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 458
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

prob hard to tell but the thing is completely disassembled and the parts have been cleaned. I even assembled the t case halves together with the shift fork installed to see if there is play and there was no play.


Honestly, I remember when i rebuilt it i had trouble getting the nylon bushings on the fork. Come to find out this time around that the '87-'88 have a different shift fork. I vaguely remember trying to force the nylon bushings on and they weren't really on right but i ran it anyways. Not doing that again!






__________________
'87 with over 300k miles, and a CA legal LS swap.
Expedition built: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1129315

When you want to be someone you drive a lifted JK, when you already know who you are you drive an old XJ.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old June 13th, 2018, 17:07
TRCM's Avatar
TRCM TRCM is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newport News,VA
Posts: 1,085
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

From having built rebuilt t-cases & transmissions, I know what a planetary looks like.

My concern would be the bearings and surfaces on the shaft the gears ride on....you can't see them unless you 'break' it apart. I'd also try to see if you can find a 6 pinion planetary to use....would make it handle the V8 much better.

When I rebuilt my last 727, we used planetaries from the cummins auto transmissions to strengthen mine. We were able to double the pinions on all planetaries.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old June 14th, 2018, 09:55
kastein's Avatar
kastein kastein is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central MA - keep going till the road turns to dirt, then listen for banjos
Posts: 14,050
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

I would at the very least disassemble, clean very carefully, and inspect every precision ground and hardened surface for damage. Any sign of damage? Scrap it.

Make very certain that you clean the oil passages on stuff, they're probably packed with metal filings and globs of plastic.

Bet your fork issue was the root of it... but I'd be real tempted to start with a clean case that you know isn't a pile because it's got clean fluid, install your SYE and input gear and move on with your life.
__________________
My yard looks like Sanford & Sons.
Please do not PM me about the AW4 info thread unless you have a truly unique question that is not covered by it or info to add. I do not respond to questions answered by the thread.
Definitely do not hunt down my phone number at 3AM, text me about it, and then threaten violence when I am not helpful. It will not get you what you want.
CTeunuch: Sometimes I really wonder if this sport makes you insane, or it just attracts the mentally unstable.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old June 15th, 2018, 05:57
burntkat burntkat is offline
NAXJA Member #1145
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,162
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by clydefrog View Post
I vaguely remember trying to force the nylon bushings on and they weren't really on right but i ran it anyways. Not doing that again!
Yes, they should be neither a loose nor difficult fit. I think you've found your failure mode.
__________________
-89 S-10: SAS, D44s front/rear. 5.7L V8. 700R4 with 4L60E upgrades. Built in my driveway.
-90 XJ 4.0, AW4, 231J: Clayton's longarms, RE 5.5" coils, hybrid 6" leaf pack, 33/12.50/15" MTs, Rancho 99012s and 99624s, Tera HD SYE, custom sliders, BW flares. Rehabbing with D44s, RE spring packs, RE 4.5" coils, and ACOS.
-94 ZJ: Budget boost, 31s. The wife's DD.
-97 XJ: Son's DD. 4" lift, ACOS, 4" spring pack, Upcountry coils, 31s
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old June 15th, 2018, 05:58
burntkat burntkat is offline
NAXJA Member #1145
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,162
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRCM View Post
From having built rebuilt t-cases & transmissions, I know what a planetary looks like.

My concern would be the bearings and surfaces on the shaft the gears ride on....you can't see them unless you 'break' it apart. I'd also try to see if you can find a 6 pinion planetary to use....would make it handle the V8 much better.

When I rebuilt my last 727, we used planetaries from the cummins auto transmissions to strengthen mine. We were able to double the pinions on all planetaries.
A similar trick is done to 700R4 trannies to strengthen them. Use the 6 pinion planetaries from the 4L65E
__________________
-89 S-10: SAS, D44s front/rear. 5.7L V8. 700R4 with 4L60E upgrades. Built in my driveway.
-90 XJ 4.0, AW4, 231J: Clayton's longarms, RE 5.5" coils, hybrid 6" leaf pack, 33/12.50/15" MTs, Rancho 99012s and 99624s, Tera HD SYE, custom sliders, BW flares. Rehabbing with D44s, RE spring packs, RE 4.5" coils, and ACOS.
-94 ZJ: Budget boost, 31s. The wife's DD.
-97 XJ: Son's DD. 4" lift, ACOS, 4" spring pack, Upcountry coils, 31s
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old June 15th, 2018, 10:07
clydefrog's Avatar
clydefrog clydefrog is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 458
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

Found a np231 on Craigslist for $25. Gonna pick it up tomorrow and salvage stuff out of it, or rebuild it completely with my parts (SYE and upgraded 27 spline input shaft). I may try to make a 6 gear planetary with the planetariums that i will have. And I have a new pump, pickup screen, bearing and seal kit on its way as well as a new shift fork.


Also, may be a bit overkill but i will be drilling and tapping the case for a 220 degree warning light sensor and mounting a warning light next to my trans temp gauge. What are your thoughts on 220? I can do 210 or 230 as well, My guess is anything north of 200 is a bit much.
__________________
'87 with over 300k miles, and a CA legal LS swap.
Expedition built: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1129315

When you want to be someone you drive a lifted JK, when you already know who you are you drive an old XJ.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old June 15th, 2018, 10:30
TRCM's Avatar
TRCM TRCM is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Newport News,VA
Posts: 1,085
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

ha ha ha...planetarium is a building....planetary is a gear.....but we get yer drift

just made me chuckle.................
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old June 15th, 2018, 10:54
clydefrog's Avatar
clydefrog clydefrog is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northern California
Posts: 458
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

haha, it must have spell checked it. I meant to say planataries.
__________________
'87 with over 300k miles, and a CA legal LS swap.
Expedition built: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1129315

When you want to be someone you drive a lifted JK, when you already know who you are you drive an old XJ.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old June 15th, 2018, 11:00
kastein's Avatar
kastein kastein is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central MA - keep going till the road turns to dirt, then listen for banjos
Posts: 14,050
Re: NP231 Black Fluid.....

I'd actually consider putting a gauge in instead of a warning lamp. That way you can get an idea for what temps it rides at under what conditions and tell if something seems out of whack. Maybe a second trans temp sensor with a switch to select which you're looking at?

I know my bone stock NP231 behind a stock 4.0/AX15 will get hot enough to give mild second degree burns to the back of my hand while prying the shift lever away from it (I didn't have a linkage hooked up...) but I'm not sure what temp to expect normally.
__________________
My yard looks like Sanford & Sons.
Please do not PM me about the AW4 info thread unless you have a truly unique question that is not covered by it or info to add. I do not respond to questions answered by the thread.
Definitely do not hunt down my phone number at 3AM, text me about it, and then threaten violence when I am not helpful. It will not get you what you want.
CTeunuch: Sometimes I really wonder if this sport makes you insane, or it just attracts the mentally unstable.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NP231 slip yoke lose fluid? Jeep450r OEM Tech Discussion 2 April 1st, 2012 20:10
Quick NP231 Fluid Question 4WDlifeform OEM Tech Discussion 25 March 11th, 2010 20:27
tcase fluid? np231, atf or gl4 or gl5 german996 OEM Tech Discussion 2 April 3rd, 2009 09:33
NP231 fluid (atf or gl5) question , please help german996 OEM Tech Discussion 16 September 13th, 2008 04:50


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014