NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > OEM Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

OEM Tech Discussion Forum for OEM (Original Equipment) or stock XJs and MJs.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 5th, 2023, 16:17
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Hey folks. I joined because all my internet searches lead me to here. I have a 1988 XJ with Renix 4.0 and the AW4.

So the Friday before last, I parked my Jeep after work like usual. Got into it Monday morning, and it would crank but not start. I also noticed that I had no power at the accessories - my 12v cig outlet, blower motor, turn signals, and everything else I would usually have in "On" position are dead.

First I thought it was an ignition switch or dead spot in my ignition cylinder. Changing those did nothing. Then I moved on to the ignition coil, then CPS. Still nothing. I have fuel pressure, and my CPS reads the correct resistance but no voltage (0.0v) when cranking. I cleaned my grounds and C101 thoroughly, and Im still getting no change. Ive also checked my fuses and swapped relays around and theres no difference.

Is there something Im missing here? The thing that really stands out to me is that I have no accessories. Turning the key just goes from nothing to straight cranking, but no fire. Ive read that the Starter Relay Solenoid behind the battery supplies power to a lot of different things - could this be the issue?

Ive got the ignition switch dropped down off the column, and moving it with a screwdriver I can read 12v by probing everything, but Ive got nothing else as far as functions.

Am I way off base or missing something here? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 5th, 2023, 16:20
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Forgot to add - I also swapped in another ECM I had around from a planned upgrade. It didnt change anything either.

Its actually cranking stronger than it was before after all this, but still not firing. Im lost.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 5th, 2023, 23:33
Rob Dimel Rob Dimel is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Texas
Posts: 8
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Im having a similar issue with my boys Jeep. Been trying to figure it out since just after Christmas. It cranks, but wont start. Definitely has no spark.

Weve fired the parts cannon at it. Replaced the ignition switch, the crank position sensor, the ignition control module, the coil, used Cruiser 54s guide to refresh all the grounds. Nothing.

The other odd thing is the fuel pump does not prime when the key is turned on. However i created a separate ground and hooked it to the fuel pump relay. The pump kicks on and stays on.

Ive been convinced its been a ground issue, but Im not sure since weve upgraded and refreshed them. Im baffled.

Hoping you get an answer that can help us out too.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 6th, 2023, 04:39
cruiser54's Avatar
cruiser54 cruiser54 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Prescott, Az
Posts: 7,063
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

The pump could be bad or the hose inside the tank split.
What happens if you use starting fluid in the throttle body?

Have you tested the CPS? New doesn't mean anything any more.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 6th, 2023, 06:45
Saudade's Avatar
Saudade Saudade is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,567
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

There are fusible links on the starter relay that power various areas. Check the realy and look for any signs of burning.

Also double check your ignition switch and fuses.

__________________
1988 Laredo 4L 2wd Auto, AKA "Grey Ghost", 208K
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 6th, 2023, 09:33
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
There are fusible links on the starter relay that power various areas. Check the realy and look for any signs of burning.

Also double check your ignition switch and fuses.

Ive tripled checked ignition switch and tried 2 different ones with the same result.

Im definitely considering the starter relay. Is there a way i can go about checking the fusible links?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 6th, 2023, 13:19
Saudade's Avatar
Saudade Saudade is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,567
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Since it's easy to do, take the nut off the starter relay and make sure all of the eye terminals are clean. Put them back on. Be careful not to overtighten the nut.

At the ignition switch, the red wire comes from the post on the starter relay. With the key turned to RUN (on), you should have power at the orange and yellow wire.

Do any of the accessories work when you turn the ley to accessory?
__________________
1988 Laredo 4L 2wd Auto, AKA "Grey Ghost", 208K
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 6th, 2023, 21:17
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
Since it's easy to do, take the nut off the starter relay and make sure all of the eye terminals are clean. Put them back on. Be careful not to overtighten the nut.

At the ignition switch, the red wire comes from the post on the starter relay. With the key turned to RUN (on), you should have power at the orange and yellow wire.

Do any of the accessories work when you turn the ley to accessory?
Just saw this so Ill have to do it tomorrow.

So i tested each side of the fusible links with my DVM and had continuity, so im assuming they are good. I also pulled out a spark plug and set it on the valve cover, and had no spark while cranking.

So no spark.. does that leave the ICM and Starter Relay Solenoid?

And to add - I had gone probing around the ignition switch the other day, and I want to say that in the "On" position, I did NOT have power. But I will have to double check.

What are the two directions Id be headed in either case? If there is power, what is my next step? If there isnt power, where should I look?

I appreciate the advice so far greatly!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 7th, 2023, 09:20
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
Since it's easy to do, take the nut off the starter relay and make sure all of the eye terminals are clean. Put them back on. Be careful not to overtighten the nut.

At the ignition switch, the red wire comes from the post on the starter relay. With the key turned to RUN (on), you should have power at the orange and yellow wire.

Do any of the accessories work when you turn the ley to accessory?
Ok, so assuming I did this correctly, and assuming you mean a yellow wire and an orange wire (I do not have an orange/yellow striped wire)...

I ran a some jumpers to the known good ground at the firewall. Probing the ignition switch, I get 12v at the red wire, but I get 0.0v at both the orange wire and the yellow wire in the Run/On position. And I have no accessories in the position at all.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 7th, 2023, 10:04
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix,Az
Posts: 16,129
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

If you checked for voltage at the ignition switch, then it sounds like a bad switch.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 7th, 2023, 12:11
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
If you checked for voltage at the ignition switch, then it sounds like a bad switch.
I have tried 2 different ignition switches, 1 brand new and 1 less than 2 weeks old. Both give the same result.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 7th, 2023, 12:12
Saudade's Avatar
Saudade Saudade is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,567
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Yes, a yellow wire and orange wire.

Does sound like the switch is bad or something wrong with the connector. Check the connector for any burn marks (common failure).

If you slide the slider to the first detent (towards the steering wheel), that's the accessory position. Next is Off-lock (steering wheel locked). Then Off-unlock (middle detent). Then On. Finally Start (closest to the firewall). If you use a rod or screwdriver to move the slider, it should spring back to On from the Start position.

When you insert the rod from the column, the key should be in the off-unlock position and the switch in the off-unlock (middle) detent. Don't tighten the switch mounting screws until you have the rod back in place.
__________________
1988 Laredo 4L 2wd Auto, AKA "Grey Ghost", 208K
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 7th, 2023, 12:15
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

I dont know how to edit posts - is there anything I can jumper together at the switch to cause accessories to come on?

Im at the point where Id be willing to forgoe a key and ignition switch altogether and make the whole damn thing switches and push button start.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 7th, 2023, 12:20
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
Yes, a yellow wire and orange wire.

Does sound like the switch is bad or something wrong with the connector. Check the connector for any burn marks (common failure).

If you slide the slider to the first detent (towards the steering wheel), that's the accessory position. Next is Off-lock (steering wheel locked). Then Off-unlock (middle detent). Then On. Finally Start (closest to the firewall). If you use a rod or screwdriver to move the slider, it should spring back to On from the Start position.

When you insert the rod from the column, the key should be in the off-unlock position and the switch in the off-unlock (middle) detent. Don't tighten the switch mounting screws until you have the rod back in place.
Ok, then after seeing this, I can tell you that it will begin cranking in the "On" position. If i leave it there, it will just crank and crank. Moving it to Start, it will keep cranking and spring back to "On", but continue cranking. I have to physically move it back to one of the other 3 positions to make it stop cranking, and I have no power to any accessories in any of those positions.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 7th, 2023, 12:39
Johnny6guns Johnny6guns is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: TA, WV
Posts: 14
Re: Sudden Crank/No Start condition - also no accessories in On/Run?

I figured out why I was cranking in "On" - the ground and yellow wire were reversed on their posts on the switch. So now it only cranks Start, but still no power to anywhere else. I removed the wires from the connector completely. Still nothing.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ran fine, then sudden no start condition. Please help! keep0njeepin0n OEM Tech Discussion 28 February 17th, 2009 17:33
Jeep Dies, No Crank condition Anadaron OEM Tech Discussion 6 November 7th, 2008 10:46
Sudden spike in temp then rough start later. redneck OEM Tech Discussion 2 January 23rd, 2008 20:44
crank-crank-crank-crank-cra... [wait...] crank-crank-START! iBran OEM Tech Discussion 20 October 21st, 2005 17:33
All of a sudden...fast cold start! - but why? Dragonslayer OEM Tech Discussion 8 March 30th, 2004 01:15


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014