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Access panel for fuel pump

idahjo

NAXJA Forum User
Location
USA
When I was laying on a creeper staring up at the fuel tank <hoping> I didn't have to change the bloody fuel pump, I had to wonder what was in the head of the design engineers when they didn't put a panel in the floor of the rear space? From what I could make out the only reason why it was not made that way was to keep shop maintenance flat rate alive and well from dropping and reinstalling the tank ($$$).
If I have to pull the tank out I am going to study it carefully to see if a hole can be cut in the floor and a panel (access plate) put over it when finished. The metal is thin enough a hand nibbler would make the cut.
How about this? Sell a kit that includes a template, instructions for cutting the hole and a nicely engineered- stamped access plate with fasteners... for say, $35.00 a pop!
 
Yea if i ever have to change mine i will be adding an access door
i have removable carpet so it would be extra easy to get at.

If there was a kit with a template id buy it before i dropped the tank.
Would probably need to make different templates for the older body vs newer body style..

you could possibly even make it something printable so it could be extra cheap for the template ..
 
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Ideas such as that are crated by the "FNG" Most engineers have little if any common sense.
 
It's not the engineer's doing. It's the DOT regulations (Europe has a similar design code
and so the Cherokee was designed to conform to their standards, also).

In any car fuel system design, there has to be a solid barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger compartment. Fuel lines and vent hoses are not allowed anywhere inside as well. Access panels are not allowed as they can crumple and pop loose in a crushing
accident. It all has to do with something called: "fire".

I do not know when the code was enacted, but something like a 60's Mustang would not
be able pass muster today in this regard.
 
It's not the engineer's doing. It's the DOT regulations (Europe has a similar design code
and so the Cherokee was designed to conform to their standards, also).

In any car fuel system design, there has to be a solid barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger compartment. Fuel lines and vent hoses are not allowed anywhere inside as well. Access panels are not allowed as they can crumple and pop loose in a crushing
accident. It all has to do with something called: "fire".

I do not know when the code was enacted, but something like a 60's Mustang would not
be able pass muster today in this regard.

Humm...I guess I better weld my cover on instead of using screws to secure it.

PUMPACCESSCOVERUNDER.jpg
 
In my opinion, an access panel is an excellent idea. Aircraft use them everywhere including sealed fuel cells. A simple scab type cover held on with screws that secured to nutplates would be adequate. The trick is using quality hardware and enough of it to transfer the bearing load across the cover. Of course a flush panel, dimpled for countersunk screws would be much more professional looking. There is a book called AC43.13 Acceptable Practices and Techniques that would have a lot of info on such matters. The question is, is it really worth all the time and effort when I have never been in my tank...yet. My experience with aftermarket fuel pumps is maybe so.
 
_MuddButt; It is a ‘98XJ

Dragonslayer; What you say is probably the correct answer. And, making such an alteration available commercially would surely draw fire from the first tort attorney that became aware of it. I was amazed how THIN the floor metal is on these rigs when I poked an icepick through the metal under my back seat for a valve stem to access my air shock tubing. There are always those who could screw-up a steel ball with a rubber hammer... like the guy who couldn’t properly get the retainer cap back in place tightly, so they RTV’d it in place instead [oops-didn't work]

Sidewinder; You sly dog… “one-upped” me! Careful when you weld the lid back on, with the plastic tank and gasoline fumes and all...



Personally, in my opinion, “crush” in an area above the axle and between the rear springs would present little risk. I was thinking about a round or oval shaped opening, to minimize corner breaking or tearing out, and a tightly fitted hatch cover that followed the floor ridges and grooves present, gasketed and securely screwed/bolted in place. I’m betting that with a template available to locate the proper cut-out from above and a nibbler the opening could be made without damaging anything you cannot see.
As I said, I hope I don’t have to replace the unit (seems to be working flawlessly again after the rubber hammer wake up call), but if I do I am going to give serious consideration to making this modification and making a top locating template available. From what I can see dropping the tank is a real PITA deal. Any of us having a template available IF it is needed is just another arrow in the quiver.
Thanks for all the input, you guys are GREAT!
 
It's not the engineer's doing. It's the DOT regulations (Europe has a similar design code
and so the Cherokee was designed to conform to their standards, also).

In any car fuel system design, there has to be a solid barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger compartment. Fuel lines and vent hoses are not allowed anywhere inside as well. Access panels are not allowed as they can crumple and pop loose in a crushing
accident. It all has to do with something called: "fire".

I do not know when the code was enacted, but something like a 60's Mustang would not
be able pass muster today in this regard.

Really? That's odd, because my 2002 VW TDI has an access plate under the rear seat so you can change the fuel gauge sender/pickup assembly that mounts into the top of the fuel tank.

Admittedly, I'm referring to a diesel car, but I would expect that all MKIV Golfs and Jettas are similar...
 
It's not the engineer's doing. It's the DOT regulations (Europe has a similar design code
and so the Cherokee was designed to conform to their standards, also).

In any car fuel system design, there has to be a solid barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger compartment. Fuel lines and vent hoses are not allowed anywhere inside as well. Access panels are not allowed as they can crumple and pop loose in a crushing
accident. It all has to do with something called: "fire".

I do not know when the code was enacted, but something like a 60's Mustang would not
be able pass muster today in this regard.

my 86 nissan has a access panel to remove the fuel gauge sending unit. so im a bit curious to know what it says.
 
_MuddButt; It is a ‘98XJ

Dragonslayer; What you say is probably the correct answer. And, making such an alteration available commercially would surely draw fire from the first tort attorney that became aware of it. I was amazed how THIN the floor metal is on these rigs when I poked an icepick through the metal under my back seat for a valve stem to access my air shock tubing. There are always those who could screw-up a steel ball with a rubber hammer... like the guy who couldn’t properly get the retainer cap back in place tightly, so they RTV’d it in place instead [oops-didn't work]

Sidewinder; You sly dog… “one-upped” me! Careful when you weld the lid back on, with the plastic tank and gasoline fumes and all...

I'm not about to weld the cover on. Just being facetious.

Personally, in my opinion, “crush” in an area above the axle and between the rear springs would present little risk. I was thinking about a round or oval shaped opening,

The problem with a round opening is you would cut through/eliminate half the hat section that is spot welded to the underside of the floor, along the left side of the opening. My cut along the left edge went through just the outer edge of the hat section, which I don't think compromised its strength.

to minimize corner breaking or tearing out, and a tightly fitted hatch cover that followed the floor ridges and grooves present, gasketed and securely screwed/bolted in place. I’m betting that with a template available to locate the proper cut-out from above and a nibbler the opening could be made without damaging anything you cannot see.
As I said, I hope I don’t have to replace the unit (seems to be working flawlessly again after the rubber hammer wake up call), but if I do I am going to give serious consideration to making this modification and making a top locating template available. From what I can see dropping the tank is a real PITA deal. Any of us having a template available IF it is needed is just another arrow in the quiver.
Thanks for all the input, you guys are GREAT!

See above.
 
I don't know what you guys are whining about? It took my 30 minutes to R&R my fuel pump on my 99 by myself in my driveway and that included dropping the tank. It would take you longer to cut and patch the rear floor then to just drop the tank and honestly it's pretty easy job.
 
depends on where your rig spent the last however many years. Where I grew up anything over 10 years old, you pretty much planned on replacing any threaded fasteners and using a torch to get the old ones out. but there are issues with doing that around fuel....

The one and only concern that I would have about using an access panel would be that the obvious way of securing it would be to use sheetmetal screws. That theoretically would ever so slightly increase the risk of leakage in a crash if one were to crash in such a way as to shove the tank up into the floor. Other than that I think it's a fantastic idea, and were I in the same situation I would probably seriously consider cutting one myself.
 
The only metal fasteners you have to mess with to get the tank out are the tank straps themselves, mine were pretty rusty but after hosing them down with some Mopar rust penetrant they came loose without much trouble. The main issue I ran into was someone wheeled my jeep before I got it and bent the passenger side tank strap bolt, but after I got it bent mostly back into shape it was a cake walk.

In case no one has tried the Mopar rust penetrant. http://www.jeep4x4center.com/mopar-rust-penetrant-10-8-oz-aerosol-can-4318039ac.html
 
I don't know what you guys are whining about? It took my 30 minutes to R&R my fuel pump on my 99 by myself in my driveway and that included dropping the tank. It would take you longer to cut and patch the rear floor then to just drop the tank and honestly it's pretty easy job.

Unless you have say... a gas tank skid that shares bolts with a trailer hitch, rear bumper tie-ins, and/or maybe a pair of shackle relocation brackets. I don't have any rusty bolts to deal with being a fellow Californian, but I guarantee it would take me at lot longer than 30 minutes to R&R the fuel pump on my '99, especially if it went out on the trail!
 
I just buy replacement J-bolts before starting. Part number J324 0023, you can get em for a few bucks each from various companies. Standard 3/8-16 thread, use stainless nylock nuts and stainless washers. Makes the job easy, support the tank, cut the bolts, lower it down, disconnect hoses, replace pump, reconnect hoses, jack back up, bolt back in.

When I redid the floors on my 96, I had the tank in and out so many times that the last time, it took me 5 minutes to put back in, and that's working with no jack - I laid under the jeep, bench pressed the tank into place, held it with one knee, and put the straps in place with my arms. Not all that difficult on a lifted rig :gee:

I believe the only hangup you will run into is that one of the stiffening members from the shock crossmember to the rear frame crossmember goes over the top of the fuel pump on a 97-01. You probably want to make sure you don't cut through that.
 
nope, the 97+ ones are on top, and held in by a plastic locking nut and a giant neoprene gasket.
 
Wow.
A plastic nut.
And you guys say 99 is the best year?

OP: to make it easier, pull the soft line from the tank, and put it into a fuel can, the jumper the pump relay, and let the tank drain itself, no reason to mess with a silly hand pump.
 
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