Rattle can (paint) questions

Hi everybody!

I have an 87 XJ with really bad paint. The original paint was maroon and the guy I bought the Jeep from had used a rattle can to paint it flat black. The flat black is cracking and showing the maroon. I want to repaint it gloss black. I plan to sand and prime some areas and clean/degrease the whole truck. My questions:

1) How many rattle cans does it take to cover an XJ well?

2) What is the best kind of paint?

3) Is there any problem with painting the XJ now, when the temp is in the 40s and 50s, versus painting it when it is in the 80s and 90s? Will painting during the lower temps make the paint crack when the hot weather returns?

4) Should I look for a UV protecting clear coat or any other type of clear coat or should I expect the gloss black to look good enough and be durable enough by itself?

Thanks!
Dave

Rattle cans won't do it (unless yer trail-only and/or don't really care about appearance).

The temperature of the surface must be above 40*F, and prefeably 65-90*F; the ambient air temp must be 40*F+ AND RISING.

I rattle-canned the tailgate of my last truck because the original paint was flaking off. It looked ok, but you could tell it wasn't the normal paint. I prefer the textured stuff now because it conceals all of the imperfections, but it's definitely not shiny.

You would be better off taking the XJ to Macco or Earl Schiebe. You will need 40-50 cans X $3-$5 for decent paint. Your prep work will need to be the same. You will also need to have 30-40(or more) cans of primer.
If this is a nice XJ or one you care about keeping for the long haul, just pay for the better paint.
I did my Father-in-Laws Dakota. I did the prep and Earls did the paint. It cost $300 at Earls. We put another $250 into Primer,sand paper, thinner, etc.
If taken care of, his paint will last 10+ years.
Real Auto paint will out last rattle cans 10 to 1.
Research it and decide if you want this XJ to be around and looking good for a while.

I have recently been thinking about doing the same and was wondering how well the rattle can paint would hold up. I guess for temporary stuff like in between body work and stuff it would be okay. Right? The only thing that I am wondering is:

if using the flat camo stuff, will water soak into the paint and get at the metal?

I have had paint guys tell me that they can mix the acrylic enamel with a hardener that will resist a lot of scratches and abuse. Is this true?

Thanks,
CB

One thing to be sure of is that if you spray any type of aerosol paint over bare metal,rust will form in no time flat. It just doesn't have the resistance to weather like automotive paints do. My advise is to use an automotive grade (by this I don't mean the $35/gallon crap the parts stores sell that you thin with laquer thinner) and spray it on any bare spots. Then commence to spraying. It should really only take about 10-12 cans of a good brand paint (look at the oz.'s on the cheap paints and compare to the Krylons and other good brands) to get a good covering. Be warned,though,this paint job won't last forever,and if you live in a particularly sunny area,it will not last long at all before it oxidizes and starts turning your favorite washing mitt the color of the XJ. I'm gonna spray my XJ with the olive green Krylon over the winter,but I don't really care how long it lasts (it's lucky to get pressure washed twice a year). At least it'll be easy to touch up when it gets scratched Oh,one other thing,the surface,as well as the paint can,should be warm for the best results. Anything below 60 degrees is asking for trouble,IMHO. I made the mistake just a couple of weeks ago while spraying some furniture (don't ask ) while the can was cold. It came out like water,and ran down the face of the nightstand like it was water,too

I second the Maaco route. I do paint jobs and recommend doing the prep work yourself, namely a nice wet sand and cleanup. The cheap places use decent paint, they just don't do the good prep work. The biggest thing you can do to help is to take a scrub brush and some Ajax cleanser. Scrub all the nooks and crannies like around the door handles and in the rain gutters. You need to get all of the old wax and oils off before painting, especially around the door handles if you don't pull them. Otherwise you paint will start to peel at these points because of poor adhesion. If you take it to be painted, when you get there, pull the front and rear bumpers, tail lights grill, head light bezels, and windshield wiper facia cover. These are the points where painting is critical.

You can do a good rattle can job if you take your time and clear coat it, but it will cost you just as much if not more.

LOL

Tom Houston

I painted an old SJ for about 50 bucks. I used around 8-10 cans of Krylon rust tough enamel based flat black paint. It held up fine and looked fine. I did zero prep work, and it STILL looked fine. You can't expect to rattle can and have it look like a factory paint job, but it will be just as good as maaco. Only do one coat, it works fine. I crashed my truck the next day and the paint didn't even chip.

As for low temperatures, as long as you do it in a garage it will be fine. You'll just have to let it dry for a couple of days instead of a couple of hours. You could also put heaters in the garage or pre heat the body panels to speed drying time.

My bodywork knowlege is dated (lots of new chems used now vs old lacquer & unhardened acrylic enamel) but the prepwork is the same.

Whichever route you go, do as Old man Tom advises and scrub your pig down. I 'd go further and use some 3M greenpads and some hot soapy water, scrub the dickens out of it! Don't be afraid to get into & below the black and into the red (orig) basecoat. If the XJ clear was failing (my 88 and 90s is, on the roofs & hood) then the black topcoat is just hanging in there by luck. Anything else over it won't last.

After a good scrub with the pads, then one can wetsand out the chips with 320 or 400. The further one 'feathers' the edges/layers back, the better the overall will look after. Never leave bare metal unprimed. Wash & dry the car afterwards, and after taping/before painting, wipe down with a mild solvent to get the last of your oils off.

I used IIRC 12 (cheap) cans or Satin Green, 4 cans ea of brown & flat black on my XJ Camo paint...then wetsanded it after a few days to cure with 400 to kill any gloss. Maybe $60 total (prep, tape, wash, 20 cans) but it isn't show-qual by a longshot

implement paint!

it's cheap, it covers well and it looks pretty damn good.

make friends w/ someone that has a gun and a compressor that will push it (today's HVLP guns need to move TONS of fawking air!)

I'd leave touch up work to rattlecans. again, if ya do the prep work right and wetsand/feather the shiat out of it, you can actually make it look pretty decent.

my 85 XJ (rip ) was garnet pearl metallic and I did quite a bit of painting on it, most of the front end (entire hood + header, were from a white XJ) and behind the doors. it took just the right light to be able to see the difference in colors


one thing to keep in mind... filler primer is your friend!!!

here's my current beast that I did w/ "satin black" implement paint


I love this paint simply because 98 cent walmart flat black touches it up instantly, and ya can't tell the difference

CheapXJ
My XJ looks just like yours paint-wise. Flat black, but the cracks where bad prep was done is annoying. It's cracking around the antenna, the flares, and the rear windshield wiper.

I concure with 3M pads, cleanser and maybe a good degreaser. Just my preference, I´ve found a good primer is more important than a good paint. I´ve used implement paint and boat paint. Not the very high gloss of automotive, but good enough. White or black seem to turn out best.
Most paints without a hardener, don´t work well below 70 F.
Rattle can engine paints, have worked well for me. Just seem to adhere better. High gloss engine paint, enamel or Urethane has turned out well in many applications. Rims and bumpers.
I´ve turned out some surprisingly good work with Rustolium paint and rustolium rusty metal primer. Takes forever to dry and doesn´t work well at low temps. but lasts. Rusty metal primer, has good adhesion, but hard to sand (plugs up the sandpaper/even wet). Took some years, to learn how to do it, my first jobs where a disappointment. Takes a touch to learn when to apply the second coat, when the first layer is tacked just right and before it dries to much, have to use a rythem, like the two step. Too early it runs, to late and the overspray messes with the finish.
For the whole car a gun works better. The overspray from the rattle cans, can make the finish look matt/dull in splotches.

From what I have learned and done is if you decide to do your own prep work be forwarned, a lot of auto places won't spray over it. If they do they will for warn(sign a release) that the paint may not stick to your primer or may peal shortly after. On my wifes old CRX I did all the prep work and used an Enamel primer. The only place that still sprays single stage enamel around here is Maaco. No other place will spray 2 stage paint over enamel primer. Maaco used a sealer on top of my primer to help keep it from pealing. It actually looked really good. It cost me about $280 for maaco to spray it and about 10 cans of primer. I had the primer wet sanded down to 600 grit and it actually shined. If you want to see my before during and after pic of her's email me and I'll send the pics. I bought her car for $1200 and sold it a year later for $3600. It financed my new Cherokee. What ever you decide, good luck. Doug

Think a lot of the problem with primer is whats underneath (most primers are porous). Cure, it takes a while for it to set, a couple of days on a single component primer isn´t enough. Sealer is most times a good idea. I often use a sealer primer, when in doubt. I´ve never had Krylon (regular old grey primer) or rustolium rusty metal primer lift (of course there is a first time for everything). I have had Rustolium atomotive primer lift. And trouble with epoxy paint of all things. Most times, it´s the prep and quality of whatever is on the bottom or intermediate coats, that causes problems.
Test patches are most always a good idea. Pick a spot that doesn´t really show and try a patch. Before you spray the big areas.

The problem is that the primer is porus. Its porus for a reason, so that the new paint can get a good grip. But being porus, it also lets water in. That is why if you sand down to metal, you really should do a metal prep to keep it from rusting. Just primer won't work unless you paint immediately, and even then it is a sketchy proposition. Have you ever noticed how many primered cars you see running around that have rust. Primer promotes not prevents rust. Also you have to use a primer that is compatible with the type of paint that is going over it.

Tom Houston

I just paint my XJ with Rustuleum Flat Black and I love the look of it but it has some "dusty rough" areas from over spray. can I use some 800 grit wet sand paper to smooth it all down to a satin finish??

Go with a solid olive drab or basic camo pattern, won't cost you much and lasts a long time if you use decent spray paint. When I redid mine from camo to OD green, I tried a lot of brands such as Krylon and they sucked IMO. Low paint solids so it took more paint and coverage was slow. There are places online that sell some really good military color spraypaint, can't think of the one I used before. This last time I did my XJ I used Hunter's Specialities spray paint, it's incredibly higher quality than brands like Krylon. Covers much better, 1 can of that will go farther than 4-5 cans of Krylon easily. It's been about 3 years since I did it and it's held up great.

CheapXJ said:

implement paint!

it's cheap, it covers well and it looks pretty damn good.

make friends w/ someone that has a gun and a compressor that will push it

Click to expand...

I concur with CheapXJ - I helped a buddy prep, prime, and paint a K10 with Rustoleum Guards Red. It was about $25 a gallon, and you thin it for spraying with regular old mineral spirits. It looked at least as good as an el-cheapo auto paint job. It came out nice and glossy with just a little bit of orange peel - kind of like the finish on older CAT implements. He used to wheel it in the Manzanita brush in NorCal and it seemed to hold up well to scratches.
The bonus to this ideas is that many colors of Rustoleum come in spray cans as well as pints/quarts/gallons so you have a few options for touch up work.

I just did my MJ. It took 10 cans of Camo Tan Rustoleum. I masked everything off with various widths of blue masking tape, doesn't stick as hard as regular tape. Spend the time masking off trim, windows, and headlights. Saves alot of time from scraping, and making your paint job look like CRAP! I wet sanded first using a wet sponge in one hand and sand paper in the other. i washed it down, and let it dry in the sun after wet-sanding. This turned out really well. Matching is easy with flat paints. Touch up is easy, great for off-roader, even daily driver. Very military looking, and people love it.

Here is a pic;

I also concur about the prep work. My thought on the rattle can, is the .98 gloss black paint from Wal-Mart. LOL, I repainted my old Zuk every 6 months with a different color. But, the hardest thing to do is the prep work. I dont like to sand, especially for a trail only rig.