Coil-Over Shocks

:us: We here at Sway-A-Way :wave: have joined this fine forum in order to gain more information from you the end user on quality, availability and applications. We are interested in understanding the needs of the rock crawler and avid off-roader. I myself have a completely converted coil-over CJ and have in the past been somewhat active in crawling. However, we don't have the hands-on knowledge that you folks do and hope to learn and produce product that will both appeal and function properly for your needs. With that said please respond to this thread with any comments you may have regarding coil-over shocks, noncoil-over shocks and bumb stops. I have been working with Paul Sinclair on some XJ shocks and thought that after reviewing this site perhaps some insight form daily users would be helpful.

Thanks for the interest in Sway-A-Way
Dave Boutwell
Director of Sales & Marketing

Perfect timing! This has been a hot topic of late. Here's a more recent thread;

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15624&page=1

I know alot of guys on this board will appreciate your interest.

If you really want me to be able to help you why dont you help me help you and send me a nice set of Sway-A-Way coilovers So I can convert the rear leaves of my xj over to coilovers like I have wanted to do since I did my long arms for the coils up front. Then I can give you a full report about my likes dislikes and anything I think you could improve upon.

Sway-A-Way said:

:us: We here at Sway-A-Way :wave: have joined this fine forum in order to gain more information from you the end user on quality, availability and applications. We are interested in understanding the needs of the rock crawler and avid off-roader. I myself have a completely converted coil-over CJ and have in the past been somewhat active in crawling. However, we don't have the hands-on knowledge that you folks do and hope to learn and produce product that will both appeal and function properly for your needs. With that said please respond to this thread with any comments you may have regarding coil-over shocks, noncoil-over shocks and bumb stops.

Thanks for the interest in Sway-A-Way

Click to expand...

I'm not a rockcrawler and spend more time speeding through the desert than some of these guys... so I am the minority and can only speak for myself.

I know that one of the main things I looked for when I was shopping for shocks a while back was compressed length. Naturally, I wanted to squeeze as much travel out as possible while blazing through mojave. XJ's don't have a lot of room for shocks, so I ended up going with bilsteins because the 7100 Short-body shocks have a considerable shorter compressed length. Eventually, my next step will be to put all the bilsteins in the rear and put a single 2.5" coilover in the front (probably sway-a-way, I keep overheating the 2" 7100s). I'll just have to suck it up and chop until I can run the shock through the fenders to get the travel I want. For now, I will just keep saving money for some coilovers. Hope this helps, keep up the good work guys, we appreciate your commitment.

Marcus Riley

Hello Dave, :wave:

Just talked to you this morning, nice to see you here. I agree with Marcus that one of the biggest issues for us is getting a long enough shock without too much compressed length in the limited space that we have on our XJ's. For rock crawling, it's very easy to use all of the shock length in the front. My shocks have limited my front travel for a long time, which isn't much of a problem when going slow, but it is a major problem when going fast. I use a limiting strap, so it's compressing it all the way that has to be dealt with. I just broke the bottom mount off of one front shock on my last wheeling trip. In our west coast group, when we're out in the desert, we have started running to and from the trails at a pretty good speed (for us), and having better shocks and better bump stops is becoming a big issue. We have our rigs set up pretty well for the trail, now we want to set them up better for speed. This goes along with the "do everything well" phylosophy that many of us XJ builders adhere to.

As far as the rear, it's hard to use a longer shock when articulating. The position of the shock on an XJ allows for quite a bit of wheel travel with an 8" to 10" shock. In checking out what to do about shocks here recently, I checked my full rebound (droop) and I get two to three inches more travel than I do when articulating. While a 9" shock would work well for me articulating, an 11" shock would work best when going fast and the whole axle is in rebound. Because of the limited space, and the upper mounts, the compressed length of the shock becomes an issue. The stock XJ lower shock mounts hang down below the axle and allow for a longer shock to be used, but because we rockcrawl most of us move the lower mount up even with the axle tube to increase the ground clearance, resulting in a more critical compressed shock length. The upper shock mount is also an issue, since we're fighting compressed length. I used a bar pin eliminator when I had 8" shocks, but I removed it when I went to 10" shocks because I couldn't afford to loose the extra inch. When discussing shock length, and comparing between our different rigs, our lift height needs to be considered as we're talking about this stuff. We run mostly between 5.5" to 8" of lift, and with or without bar bin eliminators on top. I'm about 7.5" in the rear without BPE's. Measuring my suspension travel in the rear with shocks removed, I come up with an ideal shock length of 15" compressed and 26" extended. I could gain about an inch by moving the lower mount, which might be a good idea and use a BPE. More later.....

It is extremely difficult to build a trailrig on an XJ platform that can accomodate a decent size tire, on a moderate amount of lift THAT HAS BALANCE. For me, I found it extremely difficult to incorporate the standard leaf springs that gave the lift height I needed, while keeping the spring rate in check. Most pictures of xj's you will see crossed-up, you'll notice in most cases that the rear leaf springs will dictate the attitude of the body....not good IMHO. I believe that the rear end is the most difficult challenge. There may be way to build 12" travel coilovers for the front, but try fitting those in the back without some serious cutting mods! I went to great lengths to design and build a BALANCED suspension system on an xj platform, that gave me 14" of travel....6" of compression and 8" of droop is the formula that works best for me in both front and rear. After a couple rounds of body mods, this is whats left:



not exactly an xj anymore is it? This set-up is almost exactly the same as another naxja members (one ton) however, he used coil overs (don't know the specs) Cost, timing, and an interest in designing a 1/4 elip system prevented me from experimenting with coil overs, which would have been the most direct route, and offered almsot instant gratification!


I would take a guess, and place xj-owners, those who would be coil over candidates, into a category of suspension "tuners" whose priorities would include (in no particular order) 12-14 of suspension travel (maybe 17 for those without sheet metal in the way!) wanting a bit more droop than compression...60%? ..........33-35-37-38-39" tires on moderate lift maybe 5-8" who aren't afraid to trim fenders.....who would be willing to partake in more serious metal removal mods to make the rear work? who knows? Cost is always a concern, its what prevented me from going in that direction.....I don't know what you do with that one, I figured its a pay to play sorta deal....

I don't know where bumpstops come into play, I never used them, but there's one or a few speed bandits in here that like to spank-jeep across the flats after rock crawling all day long.....

I wouldn't mind seeing if there were any "snubber" type products available to aid in some kind of lift height adjustment thingy for my 1/4 elip set-up.....

hope this helps.

cool to see a reputable company like SwayAway taking interest in our forum and club.

Sway-A-Way said:

:us: We here at Sway-A-Way :wave: have joined this fine forum in order to gain more information from you the end user on quality, availability and applications. We are interested in understanding the needs of the rock crawler and avid off-roader. I myself have a completely converted coil-over CJ and have in the past been somewhat active in crawling. However, we don't have the hands-on knowledge that you folks do and hope to learn and produce product that will both appeal and function properly for your needs. With that said please respond to this thread with any comments you may have regarding coil-over shocks, noncoil-over shocks and bumb stops. I have been working with Paul Sinclair on some XJ shocks and thought that after reviewing this site perhaps some insight form daily users would be helpful.

Thanks for the interest in Sway-A-Way
Dave Boutwell
Director of Sales & Marketing

Click to expand...

I have a set of your duel rate 16" travel with 2" bodies and remote resevoirs on mine front and rear, but have not a clue as to where to start on fine tuning the valveing. I am in Ventura, you are in Chatsworth I beleive

I'm running 2.5" dia 12" stroke SAW coilovers on the front of my Junk dual springs with no tenders. Top coils are Eibach 150lb x 10", lowers are Hypercoil 200lb x 14". They work very well. I'm dialing it in right now but I've driven it street & in the rocks.

I built my mounts around the 12's but planned for 14's so that I'd have room to upgrade without relocating my upper mounts. I've gotta say that they're awesome, they work great in the whoops & perfect in the rocks. Much better than popping a coil spring off the bumpstop when at full droop.

I actually have no complaints, I think if you build your suspension around your planned suspension media you wont have fitment issues or problems. They're really very straight forward. I targeted 5" up & 7" down travel, which is what I have. The ONLY thing I'd ask for are integrated bumpstops because we dont really have much room with a TB for pneumatic bumpstops. It's just easier to use the shock as the bumpstop at low speeds in the rocks.

Funny, I was trying like mad to get Paul to get me some coils a few months back.......he must've been keeping you all to himself!

How about designing a $150.00 coil over that replaces the coils and mounts directly to the coil bucket. Similar to a strut with three bolts that run through the coil bucket and use a load spreading washer with a rubber isolator ontop of the coil bucket. For the lower mount a cup type mount that slides over the lower spring cup. Drill a hole in the lower spring pocket and bolt the lower mount to it. This way it's pretty much bolt on and no welding is needed just some drilling..

Also a friend of mine has built a frame under his cherokee and I believe that coilovers are an ideal setup that would compliment the frame setup niceley. If your interested in what has been done check out his site.
Cherokee4x4

Any questions please feel free to contact me.
[email protected]

Dave

Considering the length of the bumpstop would be essentially the shock shaft length, you'd have some mighty fine 8" coilovers there. Not exactly droopy IMHO.

-jb

AZXJ said:

How about designing a $150.00 coil over that replaces the coils and mounts directly to the coil bucket. Similar to a strut with three bolts that run through the coil bucket and use a load spreading washer with a rubber isolator ontop of the coil bucket. For the lower mount a cup type mount that slides over the lower spring cup. Drill a hole in the lower spring pocket and bolt the lower mount to it. This way it's pretty much bolt on and no welding is needed just some drilling..

Also a friend of mine has built a frame under his cherokee and I believe that coilovers are an ideal setup that would compliment the frame setup niceley. If your interested in what has been done check out his site.
Cherokee4x4

Any questions please feel free to contact me.
[email protected]

Dave

Click to expand...

Have you seen the Air Rock system.. It's very similar to what I have explaied.. Except it's built for a TJ and uses air bags. It's not that long and provides plenty of droop..

AZXJ said:

Have you seen the Air Rock system.. It's very similar to what I have explaied.. Except it's built for a TJ and uses air bags. It's not that long and provides plenty of droop..

Click to expand...

Yes, but it's an airbag not a shock?

Then what would your suggestion be for having them build a coilover shock that could fit without folks having to chop up thier rigs..

I just fitted 14" travel bilstein 5150 shocks in the stock locations so this should be doable. You need the lift to accept longer shocks or you have to cut. It's that simple

@ Fullsizexj
I heard you have some Eibach springs for sale? PLease send me message what springs you have and how much you want for them. :wave:

XJoachim said:

I just fitted 14" travel bilstein 5150 shocks in the stock locations so this should be doable. You need the lift to accept longer shocks or you have to cut. It's that simple

Click to expand...

Sure, while you a 14" 5150 might fit, it's only about 2/3 the length of a 14" coilover. It'd be nice if we could fit some bolt on coilovers like other's with frames do, but what would be the point of putting a short coilover on the front of your rig? If it's not an upgrade then why do it? Cool factor I suppose.

Not to rain in your parade, but the 14" 5150s have a compressed length of 20.5" and the 14" SAW's have 21.5" so this is only 1" more. I will happily accept that extra 1" lift if i have to do so but with the relocation of the lower mounts, which will go about 2" down on top of the control arm bracket, i think there will be no gain and no loss of height. I'm ready to fit 42"s right now without sacrificing flex by bumpstops, i don't run any

XJoachim said:

Not to rain in your parade, but the 14" 5150s have a compressed length of 20.5" and the 14" SAW's have 21.5" so this is only 1" more. I will happily accept that extra 1" lift if i have to do so but with the relocation of the lower mounts, which will go about 2" down on top of the control arm bracket, i think there will be no gain and no loss of height. I'm ready to fit 42"s right now without sacrificing flex by bumpstops, i don't run any

Click to expand...

Not sure where you got your specs but I just measured the 12" coilovers on my Junk & compressed is about 22" or so eye to eye. So you're telling me that 14's are shorter than what's on my rig? Um ok. You get some & bolt them on to prove it to me. I wanna see flex pics with the 42s.

I got the measurements from SAW's catalogue, page 4, 2" racerunner shock with 14" travel @ compressed length of 21.5" The measurements for the Bilsteins you can get from the Bilstein web site or from eshocks.

I measured my Bilsteins and can prove the measurements for those and i think SAW has no reason to list wrong lengths for their shocks. :wave:

azxjman said:

If you really want me to be able to help you why dont you help me help you and send me a nice set of Sway-A-Way coilovers So I can convert the rear leaves of my xj over to coilovers like I have wanted to do since I did my long arms for the coils up front. Then I can give you a full report about my likes dislikes and anything I think you could improve upon.

Click to expand...

Ditto. It wasn't that long ago that long arms were a novelty on XJs. Now that they have been proven and are more commonplace I predict that rear coil conversion kits will be the next big thing for the XJ, and I say bring 'em on. The aftermarket has had coil conversion kits for the CJ and YJ for years now and if the ZJ, WJ, and TJ can also be coil sprung all the way around why not the XJ? I think if I were in the business of fabricating aftermarket XJ parts that this is where I would be focusing my R&D now.