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  #1  
Old November 12th, 2008, 16:51
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

I pulled the main bearing cap off to reveal the rear main seal and noticed the OEM seal is a perfect circle, while the replacement seal (verified to be the correct seal) has these two 'tabs' on either side of the top of the lower seal where it meets the bottom half of the top seal. I have read where someone kept these tabs on, although that doesn't seem right, being that there is no groove in the main bearing cap or block for the tabs to fit into.

Any help?

2001 XJ
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  #2  
Old November 12th, 2008, 17:21
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5-90 5-90 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

I can't swear to the later models, but I'm sure that the AMC six had a two-piece seal all the way up (from inception to 2007.)

Every aftermarket seal I've seen has had the "ears" on one half, and they're there to ensure that the two halves seal against each other. The channel in the rear main cap and/or the engine block should accommodate them, so it should be no trouble. Leave them on.

Also note that the seal halves will probably protrude slightly when installed properly - this is also intentional. The "crush" this provides also helps to seal the two halves against each other.

Pay careful attention to orientation on installation - the "open" side of the V (you'll know it when you see it) should be toward the inside of the engine. If you reverse it, it will leak! Also, take a moment to run your thumbnail front-to-back (or back-to-front) at several locations on the rear main sealing surface on the crankshaft. If you feel a "hitch" or a "grab" doing so, you may have a groove worn into your crankshaft - and the new seal will leak. This is not the fault of the seal - the groove would be worn in by grit caught under the old seal, and the new seal lip won't contact the surface all the way. There are a few solutions here:
1) Get a double-lip seal (easiest) or an offset-lip seal (I know these exist, but not for all applications.)
2) Locate and purchase a repair sleeve (requires partial or total crankshaft removal to install.)
3) Remove the crankshaft and replace it outright, or take yours to a crank shop and have it welded and ground (most difficult, and spendy.)

When I say "partial" removal, I'm referring to loosening the front main caps, removing the rearward ones, and getting yourself 1/4" or so of daylight over the rear main sealing journal so you have room to install the seal. If you're careful, this will work - if you're quick, you don't have to worry about warping the crank. Note that you usually have to heat up the sleeve to expand it, tap it into place, and allow it to cool for a shrink-fit. I've used these in various applications - follow the instructions, and the thing will work!

I mention checking for the groove now because I've run across jobs where someone has said "I changed the RMS twice, and the damn thing still leaks. What am I doing wrong?" At least they asked the right question - not checking means you're doing something wrong... Anytime you change a wiper seal, you always want to check the surface where the seal lip rides! Anywhere.
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  #3  
Old November 12th, 2008, 17:40
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
I can't swear to the later models, but I'm sure that the AMC six had a two-piece seal all the way up (from inception to 2007.)

Every aftermarket seal I've seen has had the "ears" on one half, and they're there to ensure that the two halves seal against each other. The channel in the rear main cap and/or the engine block should accommodate them, so it should be no trouble. Leave them on.

Also note that the seal halves will probably protrude slightly when installed properly - this is also intentional. The "crush" this provides also helps to seal the two halves against each other.

Pay careful attention to orientation on installation - the "open" side of the V (you'll know it when you see it) should be toward the inside of the engine. If you reverse it, it will leak! Also, take a moment to run your thumbnail front-to-back (or back-to-front) at several locations on the rear main sealing surface on the crankshaft. If you feel a "hitch" or a "grab" doing so, you may have a groove worn into your crankshaft - and the new seal will leak. This is not the fault of the seal - the groove would be worn in by grit caught under the old seal, and the new seal lip won't contact the surface all the way. There are a few solutions here:
1) Get a double-lip seal (easiest) or an offset-lip seal (I know these exist, but not for all applications.)
2) Locate and purchase a repair sleeve (requires partial or total crankshaft removal to install.)
3) Remove the crankshaft and replace it outright, or take yours to a crank shop and have it welded and ground (most difficult, and spendy.)

When I say "partial" removal, I'm referring to loosening the front main caps, removing the rearward ones, and getting yourself 1/4" or so of daylight over the rear main sealing journal so you have room to install the seal. If you're careful, this will work - if you're quick, you don't have to worry about warping the crank. Note that you usually have to heat up the sleeve to expand it, tap it into place, and allow it to cool for a shrink-fit. I've used these in various applications - follow the instructions, and the thing will work!

I mention checking for the groove now because I've run across jobs where someone has said "I changed the RMS twice, and the damn thing still leaks. What am I doing wrong?" At least they asked the right question - not checking means you're doing something wrong... Anytime you change a wiper seal, you always want to check the surface where the seal lip rides! Anywhere.
I'm sorry, I need to clarify. In my original post when I said 'a perfect circle', I meant TWO perfect Half circles (without the tabs/ ears).

Also, I have seen the earlier model XJ's with the groove in the bearing cap to accomodate the tabs/ ears on the lower half seal, however my bearing cap and/ or block does not have these, and I was told by the dealer and two auto parts stores that I have bought the right replacement seal (the seal I have ready to install has the tabs/ ears).

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old November 12th, 2008, 17:52
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akxj01 View Post
I'm sorry, I need to clarify. In my original post when I said 'a perfect circle', I meant TWO perfect Half circles (without the tabs/ ears).

Also, I have seen the earlier model XJ's with the groove in the bearing cap to accomodate the tabs/ ears on the lower half seal, however my bearing cap and/ or block does not have these, and I was told by the dealer and two auto parts stores that I have bought the right replacement seal (the seal I have ready to install has the tabs/ ears).

Thanks.
Ah. Pictures have been known to help...

Anyhow, I think I know what you're talking about now. If you don't have the machined grooves to accommodate the ears on the new seal, then you can use a very sharp blade (read: brand spankin' new! You don't want to tear anything here...) to cut the ears off of the new seal. You do not want to alter the length of the seal in any way - just shave the ears off at the outside of the half-circle. My comments on "seal crush" and the protrusion of the ends of the seal halves above the machined surface still apply - crush is essential to the seal action (and, the seal is rubber moulded over a mild steel core - cutting the ends of the seal will expose this core, and if you've exposed the core you'll want to throw the seal away without installing it. You've already screwed it up, and it's a lot less work to just go buy another one...)

Comments on checking for a groove in the seal journal on the crankshaft proper still apply as well - save yourself some work.
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  #5  
Old November 12th, 2008, 18:16
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
Ah. Pictures have been known to help...

Anyhow, I think I know what you're talking about now. If you don't have the machined grooves to accommodate the ears on the new seal, then you can use a very sharp blade (read: brand spankin' new! You don't want to tear anything here...) to cut the ears off of the new seal. You do not want to alter the length of the seal in any way - just shave the ears off at the outside of the half-circle. My comments on "seal crush" and the protrusion of the ends of the seal halves above the machined surface still apply - crush is essential to the seal action (and, the seal is rubber moulded over a mild steel core - cutting the ends of the seal will expose this core, and if you've exposed the core you'll want to throw the seal away without installing it. You've already screwed it up, and it's a lot less work to just go buy another one...)

Comments on checking for a groove in the seal journal on the crankshaft proper still apply as well - save yourself some work.
Thanks. I'll just carefully cut off the tabs/ ears. Here are some pictures...

This is the OEM seal.


This is replacement seal (verified to be the correct one), although there is no groove in the bearing cap/ block for the tabs/ ears, so as you said I will just cut off the tabs.


Last edited by akxj01; November 12th, 2008 at 18:24.
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  #6  
Old November 12th, 2008, 18:32
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Ah - much better, thank you!

Make the new seal look like the old one, and you're there. The tabs usually go in the cap (lower half of the seal,) so just keep the cut bit as the lower bit, and you should be good to go. As I said, new sharp blade and shave the ears off, and you'll be fine.
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  #7  
Old November 12th, 2008, 18:36
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-90 View Post
Ah - much better, thank you!

Make the new seal look like the old one, and you're there. The tabs usually go in the cap (lower half of the seal,) so just keep the cut bit as the lower bit, and you should be good to go. As I said, new sharp blade and shave the ears off, and you'll be fine.

Thank you very much for the help.
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  #8  
Old November 12th, 2008, 18:39
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

There are indeed 2 different rear main seals, and different oil pan gaskets to go along with them. The rear main without the ears will have small tabs or ears present on the oil pan gasket. Not sure why they did this change on the newer models, but be sure you got the right parts. Call another dealer and see what they say, have them look up your parts by VIN, there is a difference.
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Old November 12th, 2008, 18:53
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Hopefully the OP didn't go after his seal with a razor blade just yet. I did some research and found a few OEM part numbers to help you out.

I don't know for sure what year the new style rear main started, but for the 2001 model year the part numbers are:
53020599AB Rear Main Seal
53007568AC Oil Pan Gasket


Jusr for reference, I looked up a 1997 XJ 4.0L and found these part numbers:
4778126 Rear Main Seal
53007568 Oil Pan Gasket



I have had arguments with the parts guys at the dealer I work for about these parts and getting the correct one. They do not interchange and will leak if you try to use them in the wrong application.


Good luck.

BC
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Old November 12th, 2008, 19:00
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
Hopefully the OP didn't go after his seal with a razor blade just yet. I did some research and found a few OEM part numbers to help you out.

I don't know for sure what year the new style rear main started, but for the 2001 model year the part numbers are:
53020599AB Rear Main Seal
53007568AC Oil Pan Gasket


Jusr for reference, I looked up a 1997 XJ 4.0L and found these part numbers:
4778126 Rear Main Seal
53007568 Oil Pan Gasket



I have had arguments with the parts guys at the dealer I work for about these parts and getting the correct one. They do not interchange and will leak if you try to use them in the wrong application.


Good luck.

BC
Really? I'll have to make a note of that - I wonder what they changed when they changed rear main styles, apart from the cap?
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  #11  
Old November 12th, 2008, 19:17
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
Hopefully the OP didn't go after his seal with a razor blade just yet. I did some research and found a few OEM part numbers to help you out.

I don't know for sure what year the new style rear main started, but for the 2001 model year the part numbers are:
53020599AB Rear Main Seal
53007568AC Oil Pan Gasket


Jusr for reference, I looked up a 1997 XJ 4.0L and found these part numbers:
4778126 Rear Main Seal
53007568 Oil Pan Gasket



I have had arguments with the parts guys at the dealer I work for about these parts and getting the correct one. They do not interchange and will leak if you try to use them in the wrong application.


Good luck.

BC

Thank you very much. I have not cut the seal. I did hear back from another guy on jeepforum.com that said to carefully cut it as well (he has a 2000 XJ). I will talk to the dealer tomorrow, although try to get it somewhere else as it will probabaly be $$$ at the dealer.
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Old November 12th, 2008, 20:29
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Well, I just found a small piece of paper in the Felpro RMS box that I didn't originally see (the seal was in a separate plastic bag, so maybe that's part of it, the other part being my lack of being thorough). The paper states:

"On models 2000 and later, a new real main seal is used on these engines. This results in a gap on both sides at the rear main bearing cap and engine block interface. This gap must be filled with RTV Silicone or other suitable sealer before this gasket is installed."

This still doesn't seem right because my main bearing cap has no gap where the tabs/ ears would fit. So, as the previous poster states I'll have to look into with the dealer.
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  #13  
Old November 13th, 2008, 17:34
akxj01 akxj01 is offline
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Re: 2001 Rear main seal 'tabs' on replacement seal, but not OEM (did search)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
Hopefully the OP didn't go after his seal with a razor blade just yet. I did some research and found a few OEM part numbers to help you out.

I don't know for sure what year the new style rear main started, but for the 2001 model year the part numbers are:
53020599AB Rear Main Seal
53007568AC Oil Pan Gasket


Jusr for reference, I looked up a 1997 XJ 4.0L and found these part numbers:
4778126 Rear Main Seal
53007568 Oil Pan Gasket



I have had arguments with the parts guys at the dealer I work for about these parts and getting the correct one. They do not interchange and will leak if you try to use them in the wrong application.


Good luck.

BC
Went to a different dealer today....the part numbers you listed above are correct. $22 for rms, and $50 for the oil pan gasket. The rms seal from the dealer did NOT have any tabs/ ears, and the oil pan gasket from the dealer matched exactly to the OEM one I pulled out (the felpro gasket from advance auto was slightly different as you mentioned it would be).

Thank you so much for the information...it certainly saved me a lot of problems. Thanks.
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