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add a leaf with new spring pack?

Mullet Man

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Kirkland IL
search Nazis put your hands down ....i didnt come up with much on this combination.

whats the consensus on using an add leaf with a new rear oem type spring pack?
i know what i could expect if i put them on my old worn out springs.
now i have new Crown HD leafs installed with zero miles on them so far.
can i expect the same results, ie; wearing out quick and a rough ride?
or...

i bought RC 3" coils seperately and just realized how cheap their 3" add a leaf lift is. i'm hoping this would be a good combo with new rear leafs.
i'm thinking of calling Jason up and trying to get the lift without coils since i already have them now (DOH!).
 
Sagging Add A Leaves are an old wives tale repeated by people who usually have no direct experience with their use or failed to extend their bump stops when lifting.

IMHO, many people simply repeat what they read someplace on some forum and have no direct experience with the AAL. That said, success with an AAL can and will depend on the condition of your original leaf pack and will also depend upon the the AAL type (short overload or long full leaf) and the manufacturer of AAL you use. There is no technical reason you cannot install an AAL on a new spring pack.

A point to remember is that no matter what type of lift you use you are still required to extend your bump stops. Over flexing a leaf spring will cut its lifespan dramatically, no matter what type of lift you install. Leaf springs simply cannot deal with the added stress of over-flexing.

Ride stiffness is as more dependent on your choice of shock absorbers and brand of lift parts than on the actual type of lift parts, AAL vs a brand new lift pack. All lifted vehicles will ride differently than stock and you should expect some compromises when driving a lifted Cherokee.

An AAL does not contribute to axle wrap. Lift blocks do contribute to axle wrap and are the least desirable lift option. Lift blocks are also the most likely lift option to cause excessive leaf spring sagging due to the addition of axle wrap to the lift equation.

A short AAL has to very stiff to lift all the rest of the saggy stock leaves. I think the first AAL kits were the short overload spring type and this may be where the bad ride, quickly sagging, stories started. Short AAL also concentrates its lift in the area of the main leaf that is already under stress, near the spring eyes. A Full Length AAL on the spans between both spring eyes, and reduces the weight load each leaf below it has to carry. Spring sag usually begins at the ends of the main leaf near the spring eyes, and progresses to the smaller leaves. The spring rate or stiffness of a full length AAL will be softer than a short AAL and will ride a little more firmly than stock but shouldn't be objectionable with good quality shocks. A severely sagged stock leaf spring pack will in fact, be harder on any AAL, than a stock leaf spring pack in decent condition. This is simple common sense.

I have owned or helped my buddies repair or install all types of lift. Our local Cherokee club has nine lifted rigs and I have owned four Cherokees and a CJ-7 so far. I had extended shackles on stock leaf packs and so did one of the local XJ's. A week long 4x4 trip proved that they sagged and ruined the stock leaf springs very quickly. With a replacement lift spring that is designed to handle the extra flexing and load carrying of an off road trip, extended shackles are just fine and actually help smooth the ride and increase the flex. One of the local XJ's had 2" lift blocks and not only did the leaf spring sag, it went S shaped from axle wrap and then it cracked the main leaf in two. We just built a basted pack for another Cherokee using an S-10 spring pack and the original Cherokee Main leaf. This set up works well on the road and trails and gives a little over 4 inches of lift.

I ran a Full Length 2.5 " AAL from Rubicon Express on my Cherokee with some un-sagged stock leaf packs along with an extra stock leaf. That netted me a little over 3 inches of lift. I ran this lift on two different week long trips to Moab, a week in central Colorado, and regularly hauled 300+ lbs of cargo. It did well on the trails and never sagged in the least in the 3 + years this set up was on my Cherokee. It was maybe 10-15% firmer than stock, but it was smooth on the roads. My current RE 3.5 Replacement packs are smoother and flex better than the AAL but they also cost more than the $100 I spent buying and installing the RE 2.5" AAL.

The brand name of products you choose for your lift will have an effect on its lifespan and on the quality of ride, on or off road. The only way to make lift parts cheaper is to reduce the quality of the materials used to make those parts.
 
I agree with Tim,the longer AAL's are smoother. problem is you will still have a crappy shackle angle with a stock leaf pack. blocks are fine as long as there not to tall, 1" with center pin through it.you could run a 1.5" shackle,shackle relocation bracket and throw in a 1" block or long exploder or S 10 leaf and get there.but in the end the oem leaves cant take the stress. i went to 1/2 ton dodge 4 leaf packs,1.5" boomerang shackle, 1" ORD block, leaf pack is 1/2 thicker than xj pack. could use shackle relocation here, instead of block also.new leaf tip inserts, painted them,used BDS bolt on u shaped clamps to allow flex, and got a wee bit over 3". they flex well, carry loads, and have a good shackle angle. gettin 24" droop out of them. close to what i wanted without buying deavers or similar leafs and a lot less $. to me it's all about shackle angle and being able to carry a load without sagging.
 
now that my friends, should be the answer to end all AAL questions! :yelclap:

thank you very much Tim, for the very thurough answer. :)

thats the thing, i have the Teraflex shackles on mine right now along with the front spacer. i had originally planned to buy the shackle relocation brackets and run the front RC coils with heater hose around the top ring, instead of a stock isolator. this was in hopes of trying to keep it some what level with the rear.
but it appears that most people arent gaining very much height out of the shackle bracket, only a better shackle angle (i know angle is rather important). atleast not the height i would need in addition to the new HD leaves and lift shackle, too match a 3" front coil.

most of the above are "guesstimates" on my part based off listed numbers and researching what people are attaining using similar parts on these forums.

i need shocks and all the parts that you need to do a bastard pack (pin, spring clamps, new u-bolts). those parts are the main reason i am asking this question. i figured, why not just go with that add a leaf kit and get it all in one shot since i have new rear leafs and the new coils to use. instead of buying everything seperate to use my old stock leaves in a bastard pack setup with the new replacement packs.

decisions decisions
 
I agree with Tim,the longer AAL's are smoother. problem is you will still have a crappy shackle angle with a stock leaf pack. blocks are fine as long as there not to tall, 1" with center pin through it.you could run a 1.5" shackle,shackle relocation bracket and throw in a 1" block or long exploder or S 10 leaf and get there.but in the end the oem leaves cant take the stress. i went to 1/2 ton dodge 4 leaf packs,1.5" boomerang shackle, 1" ORD block, leaf pack is 1/2 thicker than xj pack. could use shackle relocation here, instead of block also.new leaf tip inserts, painted them,used BDS bolt on u shaped clamps to allow flex, and got a wee bit over 3". they flex well, carry loads, and have a good shackle angle. gettin 24" droop out of them. close to what i wanted without buying deavers or similar leafs and a lot less $. to me it's all about shackle angle and being able to carry a load without sagging.

Wow this is amazing stuff. Could you send me a message on here? I can’t send you one. I just need a little help with the details of how you did this as I am going to do it tomorrow.

I just ordered new 3” coils and lefs for my xj and need to add about .5-1” extra lift. I’d like to add a lead to the new leaf packs possibly but ***what kind of kind of shackle did you use and what angle?

Also, what kind of leaf insets?

Thanks!
 
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