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Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Why in the world would you go through that much money and trouble just to install some stupid antique boat anchor like a 305? Or even a 350! M.

350 isn't an antique.. depending on what you get. google zz6. Yes, it's based off the original 350 design, but it has modern heads, fuel injection, and for the money -- $7k, you get a complete block from GM, including ac compressor, intake, fuel injection, spark plugs, and 420hp. Some people don't like doing an LS motor because they're intimidated by the computers (I'm a huge fan myself), so the zz6 350 is a reasonable compromise.

I agree going to a junk yard and grabbing a 350 is a waste. 305? I didn't see that anywhere... why on earth anyone would ever consider a 305 is beyond me.
 
305? I didn't see that anywhere... why on earth anyone would ever consider a 305 is beyond me.
Read the third post. And when he says 350 I doubt he's talking about a ZZ6. Even then, yes, those are obsolete engines. LS is better for less money. Lighter weight, more power, better gas mileage, and longer engine life. ZZ6 still has electronics like an LS. And they are REALLY expensive. I suspect if somebody would even SAY 305 they likely aren't too knowledgeable about motors. Stand alone computer systems for the LS are pretty easy to get and use these days, certainly not any more complicated than a fuel injected ZZ6.
 
And when he says 350 I doubt he's talking about a ZZ6.

IF someone is talking about a new 350, they're talking about a zz6. It's the only crate 350 motor worth talking about.. so, I disagree on that one. MAybe he was talking about going to a junk yard and grabbing a 350.. if that's the case, then I agree, that's almost never worth doing.

Even then, yes, those are obsolete engines. LS is better for less money.
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nope. The zz6 is neck and neck at 420 hp, and it's a bargain. You can get a fully loaded, turn-key, ready to run (ok, no oil) zz6 motor for $7,800 from jegg. Thjat comes with EVERYTHING. the intake, starter motor, spark plugs, wires, crap, it even comes with the water pump and an ac compressor. All attached and ready to go. A long block for $6,400 -- still includes the intake and a bunch of accessories.. zz6 is 420hp, 405 tq.

A comparable ls CRATE motor, say, the ls3, starts at $7,500. At that price, you're getting a long block. No electronics. By the time you're done, you're easily kissing $9-$10k. And the LS3 isn't that much more powerful -- 430hp/425tq (ok, fine, it has a much flatter curve)

MY point is.. yeah, the ls is a better motor, no question. But the zz6 has a lot going for it, it has a ton of brand new tech in it, and has it's place. IF I were doing a brand new install, I'd without a doubt go with an LS motor. But if budget were an issue, and if I didn't want to mess with electronics, (which I have zero issues with, but some old timers do), I'd would not discount the zz6.

as for lasting longer... huh? where'd you get that one from? keep a 350 well maintained, it'll last just as long.



ZZ6 still has electronics like an LS. And they are REALLY expensive.

so, dealt with the expensive part, as for electronics.. zz6 can be bought with a carb, you can drop a your own intake and add a self-contained tbi, and even if you buy the efi Crate unit, the only "electronics" it comes with is a self contained box, with a chevy-tuned curve, specific to the zz6.... Read some articles and interviews from chevy engineers talking about the zz6.. they really pulled out the stops, squeezing out every bit of performance from this block, and it has some really impressive power right out of the crate. No laptops, no tuning. So, no, I don't agree that comparing the "electronics" of a zz6 is the same as comparing the "electronics" of an ls.

Again.. I agree with you that the ls is the better motor... but... the zz6 is amazing for what they've done with it, and should not be discounted. I know a ton of guys that are getting it.
 
IF someone is talking about a new 350, they're talking about a zz6.
If someone suggests using a 305 or a 350 in the same sentence, they have no idea what ZZ6 means.

Additionally, there is NO reason you need a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old 300,000 mile Jeep. You can get a really nice low mileage LS engine from a wrecking yard for peanuts with every accessory. Even if you gave it to a shop to rebuild it will be far, far cheaper than a crate motor. Expensive crate motors are for nicely restored expensive vehicles.

Either way if you use anything other than a 4.0, you're going to be spending a hell of a lot of money on a vehicle that is worth very very little. Even if you got the engine for free!

Judging by the lack of response from the OP in over a month, I doubt this project will ever happen.
 
If someone suggests using a 305 or a 350 in the same sentence, they have no idea what ZZ6 means.

Additionally, there is NO reason you need a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old 300,000 mile Jeep. You can get a really nice low mileage LS engine from a wrecking yard for peanuts with every accessory. Even if you gave it to a shop to rebuild it will be far, far cheaper than a crate motor. Expensive crate motors are for nicely restored expensive vehicles.

Either way if you use anything other than a 4.0, you're going to be spending a hell of a lot of money on a vehicle that is worth very very little. Even if you got the engine for free!

Judging by the lack of response from the OP in over a month, I doubt this project will ever happen.


you're probably right re:eek:p.
If you're talking junkyard motor to junkyard motor, then sure, I'd put the effort into an LS any day of the week.

I don't agree with you though on there being "NO reason" to put a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old jeep... I've done dozens of junkyard swaps, and there's always some bullcrap that sets you back and costs you money. and you're talking as if the motor is welded into the truck -- flip and burn the truck, take out the motor. put it in a new truck. you're going to swap over all your nice drive train goodies anyway, just do the motor at the same time. All good.

Anyway, just a difference of opinion on that one. I guess I've gotten to the point where my time and aggravation is worth far more than a few $$ thousand, I've just had it with junkyard crap, been there, done that. Dropped a brand new, crate zz6 in my **30** plus, 200,000 mile 88 cherokee, and I couldn't be happier.
 
Forgot to mention - going to a carb would be a ridiculous downgrade and also illegal in every state. You may get away with it, but its a crime and will never pass any kind of inspection or emissions test.

It is however perfectly legal to put a newer engine with the same or better emissions controls.
 
Forgot to mention - going to a carb would be a ridiculous downgrade and also illegal in every state. You may get away with it, but its a crime and will never pass any kind of inspection or emissions test.

It is however perfectly legal to put a newer engine with the same or better emissions controls.

That's also absolutely wrong. It depends on what state you're in.

In NY for example, it is illegal to swap in *anything* that wasn't originally offered with the vehicle, that year or newer. So, if jeep offered a carb'd 6 in 88, i'd be allowed to swap it. an i6 HO? totally legal. v8? completely illegal.

EXCEPT, there is an exception for 20 (now 25 I think) year old cars. Long as it passes a safety inspection, you're good. No emission testing on 25 or older cars. on the computers, if it's over 25 years, it doesn't even trigger the DMV camera (yeah, there's a camera), or ask you what motor is in the vehicle (on anything else, it gives you a listing of available motors for that make/model.. if there's ANYTHING in the car that wasn't offered, you can lose your inspection license for saying it has a i6 when, for example, it has a v8).


so, when I originally had a junkyard crap 350 in my 20 year old xj with a carb, back in '09, it passed inspection with zero issues. and I'm not talking about, go to a guy you know and give him a bottle kind of passing, I'm talking drop into a jiffy lube, don't know anyone, it passed. Zero issues. CA has exactly the same laws, as do CT and Ma. I'm not sure of the rest of the NE, never wheeled in any other states.


Your state may be different, but your statement is a dramatic over generalization.

Now.. if you had said there's zero reason because it's a downgrade and stopped right there, I'd just agree with you. I only mentioned carb becuase some of the old timers have a thing against efi. I don't. I only have carbs on my old 'vette and buick, and that's only becuase they're vintage and I'm keeping them stock. Everything else -- efi. TPI even if I can swing it.
 
I have a 5.9 Grand Cherokee, and with some simple mods the 5.9 Magnum engine can be a torque monster, and total beast! Check this out - http://utawesomeperformance.com/kegger-vrp.html and the FB group on Magnum performance - https://www.facebook.com/groups/290017301369073/ I guess the benefit of a Magnum engine and tranny out of a Dodge or Jeep 5.9 is that a 231 bolts right up, no adapter needed and in many cases you can get a complete running vehicle for under $1000. I am not saying it is in any way better than a LS, but don't discount it.
 
Surprised nobody has mentioned going turbo? With arp studs and pistons, 4.0 can easily handle 12-13psi with a good tune. Can make 300hp & tq and still cruise down the highway. There are several options being opened up by companies and fabricators. Full turbo kit for $1500 and it's very easy to install when comparing to a new motor. Could be cheaper if you can fabricate some yourself.
 
CA has exactly the same laws, as do CT and Ma. I'm not sure of the rest of the NE, never wheeled in any other states.
I was going to bring up CA emissions but the OP wasnt from CA (according to his sig). CA is a totally different annimal when it comes to smog. This statement is not true.

First the engine MUST be six year newer than the vehicle it is going into and must have ALL the emissions stuff that the doner vehicle had including whatever transmissions where optiooned on the donor vehicle. You can put a truck motor in a car or truck but you cannot put a car motor in a truck. For example I was not able to put a Corvette motor in my XJ. I had to use a 5.3 truck motor.

I can go on and on about all the wierd stuff and rules with CA swaps, just wanted to clarify. Pretty much an LS is one of the few options you have if your in CA and want a V8.
 
That's also absolutely wrong. It depends on what state you're in.

Quit trying to nit pick, nobody cares.

1. Carburetors are stupid. They belong in the 1920s, not 2020s.
2. Before you swap an engine make sure YOUR STATE/COUNTY will allow you to drive that vehicle. Do you ever plan on moving or selling your vehicle? Might your state change it's law one day?
3. It is always federally illegal (not up to the states) to replace a factory EFI year 2000 jeep with anything carbureted. No, they don't really enforce this, but it's worth knowing if you are driving an illegal vehicle.
 
Quit trying to nit pick, nobody cares.

For someone that doesn't care, you sure are spending a ton of your time babbling about it. If you don't care, let it go... but since you won't..

1. Carburetors are stupid. They belong in the 1920s, not 2020s.
See my last post. I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing at this point.
I already said they make no sense, but that some people just feel comfortable with them over efi. Hang out with some old timers you'll see what I mean.
2. Before you swap an engine make sure YOUR STATE/COUNTY will allow you to drive that vehicle. Do you ever plan on moving or selling your vehicle? Might your state change it's law one day?
Thank for agreeing with me. You're the one that made an massively over generalized blanket statement about some "universal" state smog law that doesn't exist.. Yes.. each state is different. That was my point (but apparently that's "nitpicking")

3. It is always federally illegal (not up to the states) to replace a factory EFI year 2000 jeep with anything carbureted. No, they don't really enforce this, but it's worth knowing if you are driving an illegal vehicle.
Spoken like someone who hasn't bothered to read the federal regs. I'm not going to nitpick and explain to you what the regs say, why don't you google "CFR", "EPA" and "federal smog ". it's an engaging read, which I'm sure you haven't bothered to do . And also, I never said it was legal to take a carb and throw it on any car... I said **if** jeep had offered a carb'd 4.0, that would be a legal swap in NY (I was apparently wrong about CA, but, unlike you I'm willing to admit being wrong). I'd love to know the sources you're relying on for this crap... some friend that happens to know a mechanic, I'm sure. if you really want to debate this, I suggest you stop hijacking this poor guys thread, and take it to ims.
Actually don't, I don't feel like educating you on something you could just use google for. If you want to debate what federal law says (which nobody cares about, by the way-- quit nitpicking already), quote the CFR section to which your referring. Until you do, you just sound like you're stamping your feet and shaking your fist.

So if you're going to nitpick, at least take the time and read the source material. too much of this going on these days.
 
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