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Best Rust treatment product?

89Daytona

NAXJA Forum User
Location
NY
What rust treatment product do people have the best results with?

I used POR 15 (following their instructions) on a strut tower, but the rust came back within 2 years so I am looking for a better product.

The other products I have heard of are:
Rust-mort
Zero Rust
Rust Encapsulator (from Eastwood)
 
I thought POR 15 was the best of the best when it comes to DIY rust protection and prevention.

I have used and hercliner and it works great also the finish it nice too.
 
So you think POR15 is the best even though the rust came back within 2 years? That leaves a lot to be desired of rust treatment products.
 
por is eexxpppeennsiivvee ... i like the cheaper red rust encap. you can get it in a aerosol can too very easy to work with - cant remeber what brand though
 
If you can grind down to the bare metal, it can be stopped.

naval jelly is the shit, its time consuming to apply etch and rinse over and over, but the chemical reaction turns the rust into stable iron phosphate.
After the naval jelly, neutralize it with tons of rinsing, or some baking soda solution.
Spray zinc primer over the fullly etched rust, its pretty well stopped for good.
Phosphoric acid and naval jelly is a mainstay of marine rust control, which is closest thing to the northern salt road environment.
 
89Daytona said:
So you think POR15 is the best even though the rust came back within 2 years? That leaves a lot to be desired of rust treatment products.
WTF are you talkin about what have you used it on where it came back? I have been useing it for many years and it has worked great.you must have not prepped it right.
 
POR15 is great but it can get a bit hard. On bumpers and axles, I have seen chipping due to rocks and gravel as well as sand pitting. Ince it is pitted, rust will start on the exposed area.
 
SKIM said:
WTF are you talkin about what have you used it on where it came back? I have been useing it for many years and it has worked great.you must have not prepped it right.
As I said in first post, I used it on a front strut tower in a dodge minivan and I followed the direction exactly. I prepped the metal just as the instructions said to.
 
The truth is there are no products that completely stop rust. the only way is to completely remove it. Sanding or sandblasting is your best bet. If you don't remove it all it will come back. por 15 (which I consider the best) and similar products will slow the process down, but not stop it. Also keep in mind bare steel starts rusting almost instantly even though it might not look like it. I always laugh at these tv shows that will completely strip a car to bare metal and leave it sit until their done "customizing " it. WE are a dupont refinish certified shop and my paint rep. would have a field day if he caught us doing that. All bare metal needs to be etch or epoxy primed within 8hrs of sanding or they won't back us with a warantee.
 
i used this stuff that i got at a marine supply store. its called OSPHO. its pure osphoric acid which chemically converts rust. i used it becuase my dad used to work at a shipyard and before they painted anything they had to OSPHO it first. they never had troubles with rust and this was in seawater mind you. it very thin...maybe thinner than water. just pour it on and watch the bubbles turn rust into new black metal...


excellent stuff. only $16 a gallon.
 
how does the eastwood stuff compare to por15 ? I have had good success with por15 and one bad instance (might have been rust forming from inside of rocker also, i treated the outside of rocker surface rust, treated with the por primer that allows for other paints to adhere, then top coated with herculiner ... lasted 3 years before my rocker was completely gone. ) Other surface rust on my drip rails, and some other random spots are still rock hard so it does work.

Just curious what the general consensus is on the eastwood stuff, how easy to prep, how it holds up etc. I have a van to treat and a trailer .... now that its warm in michigan, its rust killing time.

Also whomever recomended the naval jelly i agree its a good rust disolver. Very easy.
 
For any Piece of Metal that can be removed from the Jeep, Electolysis is the way to go. Unfortunately, unless you are willing to fab up a container of some sort for your whold jeep, and then submerge it while the magic happens it aint' gonna work. Naval Jelly kicks ass, when you use it with the Phosphoric acid, I haven't played with OSPHO but hey, why not?

It is very important to realize that BFred is absolutely right. Rust starts like, RIGHT NOW on bare ferrous metals. Even if you have to use cheap acrylic paint to temporarily cover the bare steel, do it. If you use cheap acrylic, find some crap that just kinda...falls off when you rub it.
 
I have used rust converter from napa, phosphoric acid, and tried hurculining all of them the rust came back within a couple months (they use ALOT of salt here in central MN)I just ordered the starter por 15 kit to give it a try its only $17 for a small can to try out and has all the prep chems too.
 
Phosphoric acid and naval jelly is a mainstay of marine rust control, which is closest thing to the northern salt road environment.

I've been working on ships for three years and none of the crew even knows what naval jelly is. They do use acid but only to wash off rust stains. When it comes to fixing actual rust, they mostly needle-gun off the surface rust, then they paint it with three coats of two part epoxy marine paint, stage 1 is a rust converter and sealant, stage 2 is a primer, stage 3 is a top coat. In fact needle gunning and painting is about 90% of the deckies jobs. The whole ship is more or less repainted every couple of years, it's crazy how fast the rust comes back.

FYI a needle gun is kind of like an air hammer but with a fistfull of metal rods that pound the rust off the metal (and it's god awful loud when they are doing the deck over your head). Of course there aren't any parts on a jeep that you could really needle gun without destroying them. Maybe the axles or the engine block.

Personally, when I lived in Vermont, I used navel jelly all the time on my junk. I swear by the stuff. You can also buy straight phosphoric acid solution at Home Despot for all of your rust etching and phosphotizing needs.

The "old man engineering" way to slow down rust is to put your used motor oil in a spray bottle and squirt it on the rusty spots. Here San Diego, even bare metal doesn't really rust though. I have a big bare spot where brake fluid ate the paint of my front frame rail. After 3 months there wasn't any visible surface rust. Then I sprayed open gear lube on it just to be safe until I get around to painting. that stuff is awesome.
 
So the question isn't so much "whats the best product" because there are really multiple products and steps involved in really killing rust.


  1. Remove surface rust
  2. Naval jelly or acid to remove subsurface rust
  3. Clean with highly alkaline solution (lye mixed with simple green?)
  4. Phosphatize?
  5. Prime (zinc if not phosphatizing, epoxy or MCU otherwise)
  6. Paint (or reprime with epoxy or MCU if zinc primer used)
I think we all agree that step 1 is to physically remove as much rust a possible. Sandblasting is probably best. Sanding or wire wheeling works too. Needle guns are good on plate steel.

Step 2 is where things start to get complicated. Some sort of primer is needed. Some primers might suffice as a topcoat as well. I found some interesting info on this site: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/primer.html

METAL SURFACES: Usually metal surfaces (except maybe aluminum) are simply sandblasted etc. and the coated with epoxy paint, in other words, no primer. But, options include: 1) a Moisture Cured Urethane (MCU) is often used as a primer. We offer an aluminum filled MCU (Aluthane) as both a primer (for lots of surfaces) as well as an attractive topcoat
2) our solvent based (phenalic) One Pak Primer has anti corrosive pigments
3) MIO (micaceous iron oxide) - a common (in Europe) paint or epoxy additive
4) zinc based primers (we don't carry any of these) - provides 'electrical' protection (vs. a mechanical barrier of regular epoxy)
5) salt removers - (we don't carry them) removes unseen, damaging salt ions on the metalic surface


So I'm 99% certain that POR15 falls into the "Moisture Cured Urethane" category. Properties include excellent adhesion, hardness, and low water permeability. It forms a strong physical barrier. But I'm guessing that hard means brittle.

http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/novdec98/laboratory.htm
http://www.impomag.com/Scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=9350&CommonCount=0

Man when you google "Moisture cured urethane" you find a lot of good info...

In area like a shock tower where there is significant mechanical stress in the area, perhaps an epoxy paint would work better due to increased flexability?

This site is interesting:
http://www.paintcenter.org/rj/feb04q.cfm

Phosphatizing is when you let the phosphoric acid actually dry on the metal. it creates a very rough surface that promotes excellent paint adhesion. It's also non-conductive, which makes spraying zinc primer on top of it useless. AFAIK if you just use naval jelly to dissolve the surface rust and then rinsing off, I guess you aren't really phosphatizing, just etching. Even if you do phosphatize, zinc isn't harmful, just not useful.

Also interesting
http://www.pfonline.com/articles/pfd0001.html

I'm not sure if you can really spot phosphatize... I tried it on my roof rack that I spot sanded, and it really goofed up the remaining paint.

This article doesn't suck http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html

 
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