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Vanco Brakes: Possible WJ/ZJ style swap.

Dieseldreamer

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Elgin IL
First off, I'm Erik. I signed up last week and got my Jeep a few weeks back.Since buying it I've come to hating the braking power. I was 'lurking' and noticed the Vanco dual piston caliper upgrade. I'm just curious and wanted to know if they still sell them and what calipers/rotors/MC they use for replacement parts in the future.

Hopefully this spring I'm looking to ditch the drums and single caliper piston setup. Then maybe perhaps do a ZJ disc rear brake setup with front dual calipers discs. Perhaps by then I can get a decent level of braking power when towing.

Thanks for your time and I hope to hear form any of you! If you have any further info, tips and tricks, or tools used in doing this conversation I would love to hear from you.

Searchs on this forum and Jeep forum haven't yeilded to much in depth info on the subject.
 
another popular braking upgrade would be to go through with the WJ knuckle swap. there is tons of info on that. its cheaper than the vanco brakes and adds a more desireable steering set-up.
 
There are many style of Vanco brakes, from 15" to 17" that they recommend a 98 Durango MC.

Best bet is to PM mrblaine from Jeepforum or calling Van directly to ask about their kits and which ones are best.
 
So what is the over all cost/time wise for a WJ upgrade? Are there other costs associated with Vanco brakes such as parts not in the kit? I really am looking forward to do the brakes all around as they need to be redone. The whole vehicle is to slow in stopping when hard on the brakes. Truthfully speaking, I'm not a fan of the OEM setup.

Thanks for you help guys, I have seen an unofficial WJ brake list or two. However, I haven't found a part by part list of the WJ setup or the step by step write up of one upgrade being done. I have searched both Jeep forums and here yet nothing is really clear cut. I'm probably just lost in cyberspace and can't find what I need.

Erik
 
What year is your XJ? I was sorely disappointed with my stopping power up until I did a full brake system rebuild (new calipers, pads, discs, cylinders, shoes, drums, and hardware, as well as an extremely thorough flush with Castrol GT-LMA). Once the new discs and pads were properly bedded, I was blown away by the improvement in stopping power (a testimonial: emergency braking one day sent my 50 lb dog from the back seat all the way into the windshield - I really didn't know XJ brakes could grab like this).

That being said, I'm still thinking of doing the WJ upgrade (and a rear disc swap), but if you want massive improvements without a huge investment just yet, you might consider going over and fixing your current brakes.
 
You can do the WJ swap for 4-600 bucks or so, depending on salvage yards in your area. Could be finished in a weekend no problem if you gathered your parts together beforehand and have access to air tools.
Does involve a little welding, though, but nothing heavy - could be done by a local shop for $20 or so.
I recommend the ZJ rear disc swap as a good starting place. I wouldn't throw a dime at the drum brakes, but that is just me. I'm predjudiced against drums.

Oh. And yes. Vanco is still selling brakes last I heard. You can do the WJ swap cheaper, but Vanco is a lot easier. I think he is using Ford parts (rotors, pads, calipers) though I can't recall the model. Explorer or Expedition, I think. Don't quote me on it though.
 
If you can fab, the WJ swap is a pretty good option. Bit it's a bit of work, and real tight spaces when doing high steer and fabbing a trackbar. The good thing about the Vanco stuff is no fab is required, as it all bolts on. Two different customers.
 
Pm van on pirate, he gave me a discount for using paypal.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
 
$200 + shipping for Black Magic pads & rotors. Helluva lot cheaper than a WJ swap or going with Vanco, though I can't help be suspicious. No reason, just don't have much confidence in a different pad making THAT big a difference.
 
Once I went with 33"s, the stock brakes were totally inadequate for freeway driving, no matter what pads and rotors I tried. The Vancos made a huge difference and are a Saturday afternoon project. After three years and 35,000 miles, I'm still happy with them.

Vanco uses Explorer rotors and calipers. You can also get them with the larger Sport-Trac calipers for even more braking power
Tried the slightly bigger Durango/Dakota MC to raise the pedal but the larger diameter piston lowered the braking power. Went back to the stock MC and it works fine after using a dial indicator on each rotor to get the minimal amount of lateral run out, which raised the pedal to an acceptable level.

ZJ brakes are OK but do not give as much of an improvement as you would think since the majority of the braking is done by the front brakes. They do work better in wet conditions and do not require adjustment. When used with an 8.25 axle, they will keep the wheel in place if the c-clip breaks.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feed back, I really do appreciate it. However, I have more questions now. I'm not going to go the route of the WJ knuckle/caliper conversation. Bolt on parts are better off for me compared with WJ brakes at this point in time. So can you do a Ford Explorer brake swap? What is the difference between Vanco brakes and Ford Explorer/Sport trac brakes? Can you do Ford 8.8 rear brakes for the corporate 8.25? Basically what I'm looking for is a decent brakes setup that will handle larger tires in time and be able to tow.

In advance, thanks again for your help!
 
Hey guys,
I'm not going to go the route of the WJ knuckle/caliper conversation. Bolt on parts are better off for me compared with WJ brakes at this point in time. So can you do a Ford Explorer brake swap? What is the difference between Vanco brakes and Ford Explorer/Sport trac brakes? Can you do Ford 8.8 rear brakes for the corporate 8.25?

Vanco uses the Explorer rotors and calipers on modified XJ knuckles.
The XJ knuckles are machined and adapter plates are added to provide the caliper mounts. The modified knuckles are what makes it work. The modification requires quite a bit of custom machine work so it isn't a DIY project unless you are a machinist with a mill and a stack of knuckles to experiment with.
Blaine, over on Jeep Forum, designed this and can better answer your questions about the details.

Don't know if the 8.8 brakes can easily be used.
ZJ rear discs are common and will fit with a little work. I was able to keep the XJ parking brake cables by cutting the attachment arms off the old XJ brakes and welding them onto the ZJ brakes. The parking brake brackets can be moved rearward to provide the extra length needed for a lifted XJ.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157605049387729/
 
Thanks everyone for your help. With this post I have figured out my best route for the budget. I will go the ZJ route for the rear and I will do that first. If I can pick a whole D35 and pull from it. Hopefully they go cheap at a local junk yard. Then I will just buy some decent rotors and pads for both the front and rear. The Vanco can come when I have more money but $750 as of now.

So does anyone know a good set of rotors/pads that will last awhile? I've seen EBC rotors/pads,hawk pads, and Powerslot rotors. I might just go with top shelf Napa parts seeing as how I'm not racing the thing LoL. I just need something for daily driving with the occasional towing. Big brakes for sure in the future!

Erik
 
Thanks everyone for your help. With this post I have figured out my best route for my budget. I will go with the ZJ brakes for the rear and do that first. If I can pick a whole Dana 35 up and pull from it that will be my best route. Hopefully they go cheap at a local junk yard. Then I will just buy some decent rotors and pads for both the front and rear. The Vanco front brakes have to wait until I have more money to spend. Regardless $750 + shipping, as of now, isn't in the budget for brakes.

Does anyone know a good set of rotors/pads that will last awhile? I've seen EBC rotors/pads,hawk pads, and Powerslot rotors. I might just go with top shelf Napa parts seeing as how I'm not racing the thing. I just need something for daily driving with occasional towing in mind. Big brakes for sure in the future as I will want the stopping power with bigger tires and a lift.

Erik
 
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Top shelf Napa should do you fine.
I'm on god-knows-how-old dime-store junk, with ZJ rears & 31" tires I'm still stopping OK. I think with fresh rotors & pads + ZJ rear brakes you'll be real pleased with the results.
 
I can lock my TJ down at 55mph with Black Magic pads, stock rotors, and stock brake shoes. That's winch, bumpers, full skid plates and MT 35" Baja Claws. I ran EBC Yellows for the last year until the BM pads became available. Remember, at best, 60% front/40% rear brake force. Yes BM pads will make a big difference, enough where I have a set coming for my XJ too since it is set up the same way. $115 shipped for the pads and get someone to turn your stock rotors if you don't want to spend the $200 for pads and rotors. Follow the break-in direction to a T and bleed out your old brake fluid. Well worth the money and no I do not get paid one cent for this.
 
$200 + shipping for Black Magic pads & rotors. Helluva lot cheaper than a WJ swap or going with Vanco, though I can't help be suspicious. No reason, just don't have much confidence in a different pad making THAT big a difference.

You're close on the price, but all the prices are shipped prices. You are only a few bucks low depending on which unitbearing you have. There are two common ones which determine which rotor you have.

In all the years I've been building, designing, manufacturing, and then testing brakes, the search for and testing of brake pad compounds is something that I'm not particularly fond of, but regard as a necessary evil. Like you, when I first started, I didn't know much different and figured pads are pads. After doing long term testing on at least 20 different brands and compounds within brands I discovered nothing could be further from the truth.

I've tested Morse, Hawk, Axxess, PFC, Centric, EBC, offerings from Raybestos, Wagner, and NAPA and now Black Magic Brakes.

When I found the BMB pads and tested them myself, I found them to be far better than the EBC yellowstuff which was my all time highest performing pad. I was blown away with how good they were and being the cynic that I tend to be when it comes to brakes, I bought 5 sets and had others test them for me with a few stipulations.

The test had to be public as in no communication with me before posting the results. I did not want anyone to think I had vetted the results before they were posted.

The rigs had to be running larger tires and be current users of Centric Premium rotors and EBC yellow pads. It's easy to look good if someone is running crap brakes, it's harder if they are already running the best we can find.

This thread was the result, please ignore some of my coy drivel at the beginning as we were pretty unsure how stuff would be taken, so we kept a lot of information to ourselves at first.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/vanco-brake-pad-evaluation-1104156/index36.html

All that said, I'm now in a bit of a quandary. I don't think we are approved vendors over here and I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes. We pay our vendor fees on a lot of boards and we certainly don't appreciate when someone tries to sneak in the back door without paying.

I was asked to pop in and clear up some things which I'm trying to do.

I guess the best way to handle it is by not responding to anyone contacting me on this board about brakes.

As for you believing one way or another, if you wish to test some parts and provide an unbiased opinion, we can arrange that. If they aren't the best stock replacement pads and rotors you've ever used, then you don't have to pay for them. If they are, you send me the full price. I only ask that you follow my instructions to the letter.

If you want to do that, you are the only one I will respond to about brakes on here and you can post any correspondence between you and I publicly whether it's a PM, email, or phone conversation.

Last caveat concerning this. If this post bothers anyone and it needs to go away, please let me know and it's gone.
 
Once I went with 33"s, the stock brakes were totally inadequate for freeway driving, no matter what pads and rotors I tried. The Vancos made a huge difference and are a Saturday afternoon project. After three years and 35,000 miles, I'm still happy with them.

Vanco uses Explorer rotors and calipers. You can also get them with the larger Sport-Trac calipers for even more braking power
Tried the slightly bigger Durango/Dakota MC to raise the pedal but the larger diameter piston lowered the braking power. Went back to the stock MC and it works fine after using a dial indicator on each rotor to get the minimal amount of lateral run out, which raised the pedal to an acceptable level.

There are now 3 levels of kits from Van. 15,16 and 17" dependant on rim size and what you can fit in them. The 15 and 16 use Explorer and Explorer Sport Trac rotors and calipers and the 17 uses a 13" rotor and dual 54mm piston caliper from a Dodge Ram 05 1500. All of the calipers, pads, and rotors and MC (where applicable) are off the shelf parts and there is a list of part numbers and applications in the instructions to get you out of a bind should you need a part and don't or can't contact Van.

I am the designer, tester, and I supervise the manufacturing of the Vanco kits which only exist because I grew weary of swapping in the WJ stuff and all the fab work that's required if you do it right. In fact it's my help that got the parts to JKS for them to sell and they even used my 24mm right and left taps to make their first run of links.

I decided a bolt on solution was needed and set about to make that happen. A big thanks go out to Van for believing I could do it and to him for funding all of the parts needed.



ZJ brakes are OK but do not give as much of an improvement as you would think since the majority of the braking is done by the front brakes. They do work better in wet conditions and do not require adjustment. When used with an 8.25 axle, they will keep the wheel in place if the c-clip breaks.

I've been doing a bit of work on the ZJ stuff to make it a tiny bit better for very little cost. I need to do a write up with pictures, but I've found that the TJ rear disc pads have more pad surface area and will fit if you get a set of the stainless abutment clips for the sliders.

Since the TJ, ZJ, KJ and Explorer all use the same caliper (with minor differences) on the rear brakes, having a bit more pad back there can't hurt. We'll see.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. With this post I have figured out my best route for the budget. I will go the ZJ route for the rear and I will do that first. If I can pick a whole D35 and pull from it. Hopefully they go cheap at a local junk yard. Then I will just buy some decent rotors and pads for both the front and rear. The Vanco can come when I have more money but $750 as of now.

So does anyone know a good set of rotors/pads that will last awhile? I've seen EBC rotors/pads,hawk pads, and Powerslot rotors. I might just go with top shelf Napa parts seeing as how I'm not racing the thing LoL. I just need something for daily driving with the occasional towing. Big brakes for sure in the future!

Erik


You need to leave the rear brakes alone and fix the front. That will give you the biggest improvement in stopping ability. Don't get me wrong, I've been doing rear disc brake swaps on Jeeps since 99, but the front is where you need to spend your time and money. Rear discs are good for maintenance, cost, and ease of working on, but they are not where to start if what you have now is not just totally shot.
 
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