NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > Modified Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

Modified Tech Discussion Forum for Tech related discussion for Modified XJ's and MJ's.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 19:37
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

Just like the title suggests I’m “fixing” the mid arms that was done by the previous owner... painted over rust- didn’t end well, seized to the bolt frame side bushings and heim joints- and what prompted the overhaul: ripped the axle mount off the driver side lower CA. FUN!
The collateral damage was extended seeing how there wasn’t any spring retainer on either side of the axle... but that’s for another (long[er]) story.

The lower control arms are badly seized leaving it impossible to remove the bushings and/ or joints as well as impossible to adjust the end links. SO they are being replaced with new arms and Johnny joints on both ends.

Axle mounts are being upgraded to 1/4 inch
Spring retainers purchased.. stickers and retainer plates from Ballistic I might use too
Heim joint on axle diff ear replaced with a flex joint (IRO)
Upper ca gets a new bracket for flex joint mount welded to it

Now my big dilemma is rolling with the upper control arm body side mount and joint. It is a VERTICAL MOUNT with a heim joint (that rusted to the bolt and had to be cut out of course). Soooo I’m super sketched out about rolling with this same (failed) setup. In my mind I see it as a huge limitation to articulation, because of well physics?

This should be horizontal like the lower arms... idk how the hell it even lasted (if you can call it that) this long!

Am I crazy?? Is this acceptable???

I’m wanting to get this thing back on the road, but am OCD and a firm believer of ‘do it right do it once’... so I’ve stripped the axle and all steering components to remove rust and want to get this last annoyance taken care of the right way.

I’ve seen some brackets on Barnes that may work, in either flat or 20*- I’ll post links


The fuel lines run right through the current mount so I think my hesitation to weld here is valid, but something needs to be done, right??

Thanks for any thoughts and input!
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old

Last edited by ShoeterMcgav; March 22nd, 2020 at 19:42.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 19:45
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation


Upper control arm in the middle showing the heim joint end facing the wrong way- vertical instead of horizontal


Body side showing off lower and upper mounts

__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 20:03
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

This maybe?

https://www.barnes4wd.com/Jeep-TJ-LJ...ket_p_818.html

Liking the adjustable one for only ONE dollar more out of these 2. The adjustable one has a 1/2” bolt option that I prefer, and can be had in either flat or 10*
Second option offers flat or 20* mounting option in a 9/16 bolt. It sure which angle (or lack there of) I need though?

https://www.barnes4wd.com/Adjustable...ket-_p_65.html

https://www.barnes4wd.com/Upper-Inne...unt_p_302.html



If I weld to the bracket that is in there I can probably notch for the fuel lines... will just be scary AF burning it in.



I also found some tri link options with a horizontal bottom mount and vertical upper mount similar to what I have.. is this all in my head? Am I good with what I got?

This nightmare just won’t end... finally got a welder and want to make fun stuff but keep chasing my tail cleaning up what I have instead!
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 20:32
David_Bricker's Avatar
David_Bricker David_Bricker is offline
PSR Fire Marshall
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Upstate NY-live; Death Valley-play; Hawaii-working on it
Posts: 4,278
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

Stinky Fab makes a nice long arm kit, if you choose to go that route. Their attachment at the "frame" side is pretty beefy, and similar in design to the now discontinued Poly Performance unit. They are also a sponsor.


https://www.stinkyfab.com/collection...ep-xj-cherokee


David Bricker / SYR
__________________
Gomer - '95 XJ, 2 dr. 4.6L Russ Pottenger Stroker; Novak TJ AX-15; Black Box 2.72:1 + 241OR 4:1; RockJock 60 Front, hydro assist, Hi-steer; D60 trussed and shaved rear; 4.56 ARB Front and Rear; Black Magic discs, Bilstein 7100s front and rear; 35s; PRP seats; Warn PowerPlant winch, hybrid cage. Annd, the Faux Dorkle is gone.
National Treasurer 2013-2021
Not a member? Become one today, and help support YOUR club.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 21:11
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

I don’t see it as cost effective too purchase a full long arm kit, so won’t be doing that. Adding 3-6 inches to these mid arms isn’t really something I need atm, and The ROI for the cost and effort seems low. certainly won’t be buying any kit in that regard either LOL I actually dig the angles of the mid arms, and aside from the rust and crust and busted links, it’s performed well.

Seems like that post was directed to the thread near mine about long arm suggestions and questions on 3 or 4 link.

If it was meant for me, appreciate it! I’ll look in to Stinkyfab, think I’ve installed some of their engine mounts if I recall; and see if they have a bracket that’ll meet my needs like or better then the ones I posted links to.




Any tips on navigating the fuel lines?

Is a flat, 10*, or 20* upper mount preferred for our XJs upper CAs?




In that long arm thread I saw one with a vertical upper ca mount similar to mine... so maybe I AM crazy, and just need to paint her up and slap it together with what I have fixed/ replaced
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old

Last edited by ShoeterMcgav; March 22nd, 2020 at 21:14.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 21:18
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 259
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

The upper arm is wrong everything about it is wrong

I would not run heims vertical damn near maxed out at ride height. It's just wrong even though some seem to thi k it's okay.

It's cheap and easy to mount the upper this way that's why some kits have it this way.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 21:44
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

https://www.stinkyfab.com/products/x...k-with-bracket

Definitely a solid looking kit! I’ve scoped it before and def like the unibody armor that’s designed into the mounts.
Unfortunately for me, it looks like they want over $300 just for the upper bracket, and it’s not clear what all that includes.

Unless I talk my self (back) out of it, I will likely roll with the heim upper ca vertical mount for the short term until I can get/ make a design that will allow me to make a horizontal mount and jj
Using what I have ( the upper bracket that has 5 bolts through the unibody and plate on both sides sandwiching the unibody) and one of the mounts above or similar-I can probably notch the bottom to allow me to weld out of the Jeep and kind of slip the notch over the fuel lines or something.

Seeing the kit(s) with a similar vertical mount for the uca put me at ease a bit.

The 4 JJs, IRO flex joint, and sole heim joint should be a pretty good upgrade to the 2 previously seized rubber joints and 3 seized heims.


A thought occurred to me about physics too... as far as I can tell the main limiting factor of the vertical upper ca heim would be droop. Since it’s mounted above the unibody stuff should be fine. As I mapped it out in my mind I thought: the longer the arm/ further the axle , the greater the drop would be with the same joint. The angle doesn’t need to increase since the longer it is the further it distances from the plane.
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 21:51
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan03 View Post
The upper arm is wrong everything about it is wrong

I would not run heims vertical damn near maxed out at ride height. It's just wrong even though some seem to thi k it's okay.

It's cheap and easy to mount the upper this way that's why some kits have it this way.
Fair enough.

Pretty much echoes my original view of it- multiplied by the disdain and aggravation of trying to remove the previously rusted stuck bolt, the no room for the nut, and eventually having to cut the how out of there!


Welp, now that we can agree itís a poor design, lets hear a solution?

Whatís your fix?
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 22:00
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 259
Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

This is a sick bracket.
https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R2228.html
I'm not sure the degree the lns are at. However they can be adjusted

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...KBrackets.html

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 22:04
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix,Az
Posts: 13,287
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
Just like the title suggests Iím ďfixingĒ the mid arms that was done by the previous owner..
Thanks for any thoughts and input!
That whole set-up is scary looking and yet you bought it....?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 22:40
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
That whole set-up is scary looking and yet you bought it....?
Well clearly I bought it. Whatís the point in asking rhetorical questions?

The manual hubs and rear 9Ē caught my eye, for the price it was less abused then the other xjs I looked at. I knew Iíd add to and modify this build, but didnít want to start at ground zero as Iíve already built a ZJ from stock. Not sure what compels you to try and create waves... Iíd prefer to skip the back and forth cool guy banter and just find a fix man.

Scary looking? From those pics?
Lol well I ainít scurd, just want to improve what I got bro
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 22:43
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 259
Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

I'd buy it to.

Everything can always be fixed and made better.
I'd like to do long arms but it's not high on priority.

I've done alittle research and no clue whose kits are better.

Theres some on ebay that look good they arent a cool name like clayton but look good. I'll go grab a link

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 22:49
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 259
Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

This isnt bad is a basic long arm.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...18 4220576236

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 22nd, 2020, 23:02
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 305
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

I had claytons on my ZJ... it was a radius arm design. It it was awesome and very high quality. He kind of set the standard when I bought it years ago and now there are a ton of options.
The fleabay link isn’t going anywhere for me. I’d prefer to support a local company like iRO or TNT or claytons or stinkyfab the list is ever growing these days.

The fab work you are putting out I’d just make a kit and buy springs. Mounts to save time maybe. Same reason I have no desire to spend 1k on a kit.
__________________
98xj lift 35s mid arms locked 9"/hp30 locked w warn hubs wj brakes hi steer etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 23rd, 2020, 06:44
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix,Az
Posts: 13,287
Re: Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

You just need to man-up and buy a good set or get to building some. I built my first set 20yrs ago when about the only thing out there was Clayton. They are 2" Chromoly and still going strong, I built a second set about 1oyrs ago for my Cheromanche project.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
midarm 3 link bracketry and assorted questions DeftwillP Advanced Fabrication and Engineering 28 January 18th, 2013 07:44
A failed rehabilitation........ ColoradoRaptor Colorado Chapter 4 November 19th, 2010 19:12
Complete front end rehabilitation... Electrichorseman OEM Tech Discussion 7 August 6th, 2010 20:25
XJ Front Midarm 3 Link Build 98xjjeeper Modified Tech Discussion 31 December 22nd, 2009 21:20
nightmare XJ 4wdParakeet Midwest Chapter 16 December 28th, 2008 22:19


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014