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Shifter's misbehaving

P

phred

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
Couldn't find any other discussion of this problem so here goes.

The release button on the tranny shifter won't go in when the ignition is in the Start or Run position. Only time the button will go in is when the key is in what I think is the Accessory position, the first click past Locked.

Sooo, to start it up I have to put the key in the ACC position, move the shifter to Neutral, then crank it up. If I start with the shifter in the park position, the button will not go in and I have a nicely running but immobile Jeep.

Also noticed that the shifter will move between N and D without pushing the button in at all. Will also move from R to N without the button, but not the other way around. Don't know if that is related or not or if it is normal behavior.

The starting interlock problem started spontaneously the other day - any clues about the fix would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Allen in sunny Corvallis, OR (hasn't rained here in two weeks - spooky).

-------------------------
1990 Cherokee, 2WD 159,000 miles. stock.
 
Damn...sounds like a real pita. I don't know why this would happen, but it's normal for it to be able to simply be pushed from reverse to neutral, and from drive to neutral. You shouldn't be able to just push it from neutral in either direction. This is basically a safety feature of the auto transmission as it was explained to me.

Just a thought though, is the shifter handle pushed in all the way down and seated properly? Not sure if that could cause it, but just a thought.
As well, I see you have a '90, same year as mine. The shift interlock was under recall, and just had mine done, as I just recently got my vehicle from my brother. Has this recall been done on yours? [if unsure, just take the VIN to your dealer and they'll be able to tell you what's been done or not.]
 
cykaaro said:
Just a thought though, is the shifter handle pushed in all the way down and seated properly?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your post - I went out and shoved down on the handle and pounded it a bit for good measure with my fist. No change. I then popped the T-handle off so I could push directly on the rod in the middle of the shift lever. Same problems. Looks like the fault is not with the T-handle, itself, but somewhere beyond.
cykaaro said:
The shift interlock was under recall, and just had mine done, as I just recently got my vehicle from my brother. Has this recall been done on yours?
Click to expand...
Got all the outstanding recalls done a year ago when I got the jeep from my brother-in-law... hmm

Anyone else experienced with this problem or have suggestions?

Thanks.
Allen

-------------------------
1990 Cherokee, 2WD 159,000 miles. stock.
 
Good to rule that out at least. I'm just trying to remember what it looks like with the one I was pulling off of at the local wreckers. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the button basically moves [or rather pushes] a squared piece of metal away from the teeth, which are where each gear is, allowing the cable running to the tranny to be moved, and when let go, it 'locks' it into a set gear, be it P, R, D, etc etc.
Just to see what's happening inside, when you depress the button, I'd remove the T handle first, then the cover plate so you can see inside what's actually happening. Put the handle back on, and when you try to depress the button, does that squared piece push out of the teeth at all?
I'm wondering if the problem is with that mechanism somehow, as I can't see it being the actual shifting of the gears at all...........Dont' know if it'll help you or not, but mayhap you can narrow down where the exact problem is........
 
cykaaro said:
Good to rule that out at least. I'm just trying to remember what it looks like with the one I was pulling off of at the local wreckers. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the button basically moves [or rather pushes] a squared piece of metal away from the teeth, which are where each gear is, allowing the cable running to the tranny to be moved, and when let go, it 'locks' it into a set gear, be it P, R, D, etc etc.
Just to see what's happening inside, when you depress the button, I'd remove the T handle first, then the cover plate so you can see inside what's actually happening. Put the handle back on, and when you try to depress the button, does that squared piece push out of the teeth at all?
I'm wondering if the problem is with that mechanism somehow, as I can't see it being the actual shifting of the gears at all...........Dont' know if it'll help you or not, but mayhap you can narrow down where the exact problem is........
Click to expand...
I'll try your suggestion and report back what I find. Thanks for thinking about this.

Allen
 
Not to screw with the thread but can all of you start the jeep in P and N...I can only start the jeep in Park and if i try to start it in N nothing really happens or it makes a quick starter noise then it quits, but never starts ???

pete
 
jeepsrock said:
Not to screw with the thread but can all of you start the jeep in P and N...I can only start the jeep in Park and if i try to start it in N nothing really happens or it makes a quick starter noise then it quits, but never starts ???

pete
Click to expand...

I would say it's your NSS causing that. I took mine off, and throughly cleaned, greased and put back on. Can start with it again, and my reverse lighs works once again, but did notice that it won't start in neutral at all, as I did try. Just nada. Not noise or anything. In P though it fires right up. Have you cleaned your NSS at all? and do you have any problems starting in P. If you do it may be time to do it.
 
I wish I had a digital camera cause my console is off and I could show you guys the ramps and tabs that lock the shifter in different possitions.

On mine I can shift from N to D without pressing the button, just pull back. Maybe its not supposed to and mine is worn out a bit but I like it. I guess safety wise though the button should have to be pressed so a kid doesn't pull on it and start moving forward. I guess I should fix that before my son does something like that.

A friend of mine got the shifter interlock dealy done by the dealer and all it did was create a big hassle for him. I can't remember if he had problems with the shifter but he did with the key. He could't turn the key on or off, I can't remember which and had to play with the wheel and shifter to get the key to work. We guessed that they put it in wrong or out of adjustment.

Could it be that the recall fix is out of adjustment now?

What exactly is that recall supposed to fix?
 
Hey cykaaro i wonder if this is the way its supposed to be bc i also cleaned mine and tested it using a multimeter and it tested fine ? I find it strange, but i am wondering if someone elses the same behavior.

pete
 
jeepsrock said:
Hey cykaaro i wonder if this is the way its supposed to be bc i also cleaned mine and tested it using a multimeter and it tested fine ? I find it strange, but i am wondering if someone elses the same behavior.

pete
Click to expand...

Could be. I've always read that it should be able to start in N, but my doesn't at all, unless I put my wire back in that bypasses the NSS.
 
I have had the same problem, & it comes from the 2nd cable (not the shift cable) at the base of the shift tower. If you have the plastic off, just disconnect the cable (I think it's the one on the pass. side) that connects to the end of the shift lever. The other end runs up to the ign. cylinder. I did this a few weeks ago because I couldn't get the cylinder to turn back to a position that I could pull the key out. Now I can start the Jeep even in drive, which is fine w/ me since I have no kids in my Jeep, & my key will come out. I never bothered to find out how to fix it, I just disabled it.
 
cykaaro said:
...I believe the button basically moves [or rather pushes] a squared piece of metal away from the teeth, which are where each gear is, allowing the cable running to the tranny to be moved, and when let go, it 'locks' it into a set gear, be it P, R, D, etc etc.
Just to see what's happening inside, when you depress the button, I'd remove the T handle first, then the cover plate so you can see inside what's actually happening. Put the handle back on, and when you try to depress the button, does that squared piece push out of the teeth at all?
I'm wondering if the problem is with that mechanism somehow, as I can't see it being the actual shifting of the gears at all...........Dont' know if it'll help you or not, but mayhap you can narrow down where the exact problem is........
Click to expand...
Got some time this evening so I popped the plate off at the base of the shifter and looked at the mechanism (don't have to remove the handle to see well enough). The square piece is pushing down fine past the teeth, so the problem is not there. Also looked at the shape of the teeth and figured out that the button has to be in for only certain moves:

out of park to R; from a higher forward gear to a lower gear (saw teeth allow one-way moves); from N to R.

All other shifts can be done without pushing the button, based on the slot pattern in the engagement plate. You can move from N to D and back, or from a lower gear to a higher gear, or from R to N. That part is working OK.

Could see that the shifter button also pushes a rod forward that causes a sound in the steering column right around the ignition key. I'm thinking the problem is somewhere in that linkage. Anyone know how the ignition lock interacts with the push rod at the base of the shifter?

Allen in Corvallis

-------------------------
1990 Cherokee, 2WD 159,000 miles. stock.
 
Ok first off just about every auto tranny I have ever worked on or driven weather it be jeep or not can be shifted from reverse to drive with out pushing in the button but the button must be pushed in to go from drive to reverse this is a saftey feature so you cant slam the tranny into reverse on accident. Second I would tend to believe that the problem with your tranny is either in the interlock relay (relay which wont let you shift the tranny unless your foot is on the brake) or an ignition switch problem Having worked at a Jeep dealler for 3 years I saw this a few times.good luck
 
hey bigdaddy since you have woked with jeeps a bit is the jeep xj supposed to start in both N an P, bc i have seen a few that only start in P and they have good NSS ???

pete
 
Kinda starnge as i have opened it and cleaned it as well as tested it with a multimeter and all tests out good. How exaclty do i go about adjusting it ?

pete
 
I had the same problem with my 90 for a while too. Ended up being something with the shift interlock and my t handle was broken too but uhh... I'd unplug the interlock solenoid or mechanism whatever it is. Thats what I did. PM Jneary for steps to do it if you want.
 
BigDadys94xj said:
Ok first off just about every auto tranny I have ever worked on or driven weather it be jeep or not can be shifted from reverse to drive with out pushing in the button but the button must be pushed in to go from drive to reverse this is a saftey feature so you cant slam the tranny into reverse on accident. Second I would tend to believe that the problem with your tranny is either in the interlock relay (relay which wont let you shift the tranny unless your foot is on the brake) or an ignition switch problem Having worked at a Jeep dealler for 3 years I saw this a few times.good luck
Click to expand...

Bigdady - I don't have to push the brake pedal to shift out of park. Is the interlock relay in the steering column or tied to the ignition switch? I'm wondering is related to the problem with button on the shifter?

Thanks.
Allen
 
The interlock relay is located on the tranny but you may not have one If you dont need to have your foot on the brake pedal to shift out of drive. Early year XJ's up until the early 90's didnt have this feature. Your problem seems to be related to the ignition switch or the shifter but from what I have read about your problem I would swing more towards the ignition switch.
 
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