Hybrid D44

I saw in a couple of the other threads that Richard and Jeff were toying with the ideas of putting D60 outers on their D44s. I'll go out on a limb and assume that you would switch to 35-spline axles, too. I was considering doing the same thing but had a couple of questions for you or anyone else who has some insight about this:

What type of inner and outer knuckles would you use, stock or aftermarket? If aftermarket, which company?

Preference between kingpin or balljoint?

Would you retube the axle? If so, what OD, thickness, type of steel tubing would you use? Retain the dimensions of your current front end?

Also, what type of locker would you use (I'm not sure if anyone other than ARB has a 35-spline application for a D44)?

Thanks.

P.S. Let me know if this isn't advanced enough to be here. Not being a smartass and I don't want to clog up this area with topics that should be elsewhere.

I'm not so sure they would go to 35 spline inners (though only they can answer that for sure). Richard is breaking hubs, stub shafts and CTMs if I remember right, all of these would be majorly upgraded without swapping to 35 spline inners, though the 30 spline inners would likely become the weakpoint.

Crane, Dedenbear, and stock knuckles would all be fine (IMO) with 37s. The guys breaking knuckles are generally running much bigger tires.

Generally kingpins are stronger, but the knuckle takes up more space, so you either end up with a wider axle or it gets tricky to mount coils in there. Even with balljoint knuckles, you might not be able to fit coils with an axle 60-62" wide, SeanP has a balljoint 60 with coilovers.

there's a decent start, hopefully those guys that are considering this will chime in...

Currie and Sunray both build front 9's with 60 outers. If theres a will (and whole lotta cash) theres a way.

yeah, and throw a TrueHi9 in there..... :drool:

of course now you're talking about what, $6k for an axle?

If I were to keep the MJ lightweight, would a BJ knuckle be acceptable for (mostly) east coast wheeling. I plan on taking some trips out west for actual rocks (as Brett knows, there ain't no rocks in MI!) too so I want to wheel without worrying about nursing or trailering the truck home.

BrettM and xjcrawlr: I did actually consider building a 9" front with D60 outers but I had a $15 HPD44 housing fall into my lap and started seeing articles here and there about putting 35-spline axles in a D44. Thought I might want to try that out....

These are good questions that I don't have answers for. I was thinking of using king pin Dana 60 knuckles and inner C's and putting them on the D44 tubes. I would have to use a spacer between the inner C's and the D44 tubes, but after it gets welded, I don't see any problems. I was also planning to go with 35 spline D60 shafts and u-joints. However, I don't know if there is a way to get a inner axle seal in the D44 housing that will fit the D60 shafts. I didn't even think about having custom shafts made (or cutting down stockers) that would have 60 u-joints and 30 spline inners although that would be a possibility. One could also go with 33 spline inners using a 33 spline D44 carrier like ARB makes. I need to find out about the inner seal options available. Aftermarket parts like inner C's would be an easy way to go, but also expensive. I don't have a clue about fitting stock coils on a narrowed king pin 60, but I was thinking about running wheels with a large offset like H2 wheels and that would allow one to push the inner c's out while keeping the track width reasonable. I would most likely run an ARB since that is what I am used to and I like the ability to unlock at will. Jeff

MJ_Chubs said:

I saw in a couple of the other threads that Richard and Jeff were toying with the ideas of putting D60 outers on their D44s. I'll go out on a limb and assume that you would switch to 35-spline axles, too. I was considering doing the same thing but had a couple of questions for you or anyone else who has some insight about this:

What type of inner and outer knuckles would you use, stock or aftermarket? If aftermarket, which company?

Preference between kingpin or balljoint?

Would you retube the axle? If so, what OD, thickness, type of steel tubing would you use? Retain the dimensions of your current front end?

Also, what type of locker would you use (I'm not sure if anyone other than ARB has a 35-spline application for a D44)?

Thanks.

P.S. Let me know if this isn't advanced enough to be here. Not being a smartass and I don't want to clog up this area with topics that should be elsewhere.

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As far as width goes, I was also considering widening the front a little (1-2") if I go with custom axles. Somewhere in between F-150 and XJ width was what I was considering. This may open up enough space on the driver's side to get a coil in there. If not, I could try coilovers. What the hell, I'm already going to be spending some coin on the axles anyway.

Just gotta find a way to hide the expenses from the wife now.....

MJ_Chubs said:

Just gotta find a way to hide the expenses from the wife now.....

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:roflmao: Yeah, mine has been trying to keep track of how much I've been spending on my buildup. I buy and sell stuff so it's hard to tell. I maxed my cc and and kind of using her's for a little bit on some small stuff. The "I'll be done after this" thing is getting old. You are never really done are you. :laugh3:


With the 35 spline inner axle option now on the dana 44, it is really opening the dana 44 up to more mods to make it handle stuff it wasn't originally designed to handle like 38"+ tires. If you can just get some bigger than stock u-joints in there (not CTMs or OX or other aftermarket dana 44 u-joints, but dana 60 u-joints), but then you move the weak link to the housing/diff etc which isn't a nice/easy trail fix.

I hear of so many people with a 44/14 bolt or 44/ff 60 on huge tires. It is some $ if you want to ditch the 44 you have thousands into to get a 60 up there.

Big Red said:

:roflmao: Yeah, mine has been trying to keep track of how much I've been spending on my buildup. I buy and sell stuff so it's hard to tell. I maxed my cc and and kind of using her's for a little bit on some small stuff. The "I'll be done after this" thing is getting old. You are never really done are you. :laugh3:


With the 35 spline inner axle option now on the dana 44, it is really opening the dana 44 up to more mods to make it handle stuff it wasn't originally designed to handle like 38"+ tires. If you can just get some bigger than stock u-joints in there (not CTMs or OX or other aftermarket dana 44 u-joints, but dana 60 u-joints), but then you move the weak link to the housing/diff etc which isn't a nice/easy trail fix.

I hear of so many people with a 44/14 bolt or 44/ff 60 on huge tires. It is some $ if you want to ditch the 44 you have thousands into to get a 60 up there.

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Someone has been declawed.
Bigtime.
Got pressure?

Big Red said:

I maxed my cc and and kind of using her's for a little bit on some small stuff.

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F'ing brilliant.

Lawn Cher' said:

F'ing brilliant.

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I pay the bills so it doesn't really matter who's cc it was on and I didn't max my card on this buildup alone. I have a few XJs I bought to clean up and resell so it's an investment of some sort.

I bit the bullet and went for it with this build. I've had years of small builds with dana 35 rear axles etc. Go big or go home. :laugh3:

Troy

Big Red said:

I have a few XJs I bought to clean up and resell so it's an investment of some sort.

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Riiight. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I stand by my initial assessment.

Lawn Cher' said:

F'ing brilliant.

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Jeff 98XJ WI said:

I don't know if there is a way to get a inner axle seal in the D44 housing that will fit the D60 shafts.

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Here it is. I was at WFO gettin some stuff and BSing with Trevor (part owner), and he's building a 44 with 60 outers. He called ARB and multiple axle builders trying to figure out what seal they're using; generally they are just pulling the tubes and turning a groove for the 60 seal. So Trevor went looking through probably hundreds of seals and found the perfect one; fits the 44 housing, nice and snug on a 35spline 60 shaft, and has a double lip/seal:

Napa #15292

Trevor is a real nice guy, and if you're seriously considering this hybrid axle I'm sure he would be willing to give you all the information he can. They make awesome stuff like D60 double ended steering arms, custom shifter knobs, and have some great prices on parts too, so buy some stuff while you're at it too

Brett,

That's awesome. That stupid seal was the last thing I had a question about.

I picked up one of the NAPA seals today and tried it on a 60 shaft. Very tight fit. I compared it to a D44 seal and the OD seems like a match too. It doesn't have a guide type thing for the axle shaft, but it does have two distinct lips. The outer one is just a rubber lip and since the shaft is pretty close to the size of tube ID, I'm guessing the shaft would slide into the seal pretty easily. However, that is not a for sure thing. The inner lip of the seal uses a spring to hold pressure on the shaft getting sealed. Like I said, I think it will work. The guy on the computer said it was for a Mitsubishi/Dodge cam seal. Jeff

So is the hybrid a go for you, Jeff?

Well, the more I am thinking about it, the more I wonder why go with a 44 center section? What exactly would I be gaining other than a HUGE amount of work? It should be a little lighter than a 60, but I bet it's not that much. I would certainly gain the strength that comes with size for the u-joints and the outer parts would be very beefy (and heavy) compared to a straight 44. However, why not just run a 60? Cost? Perhaps. The locker would be a little cheaper I think and bearings and such for the pumpkin would be cheaper. I wouldn't need to find one of the expensive HPD60 housings, but I already found one of those at a very cheap price. I was (am) thinking of using that HP60 housing in the rear, but that would be an incredibly difficult (and expensive) build. Then there is the thought of breaking things inside the smaller D44 diff instead of something like an axle shaft. What do others think? I don't really know what I'm going to do, but I'm in no hurry either since I just spent a good amount to rebuild the D44 rear in my xj. My MJ project is going to be a LONG SLOW build. Jeff

The main point to using the 44 center or even a 9" center is clearance. The 60 center is a freaking snow plow & I know what I'm talking about when it comes to plows...

Matt

FarmerMatt said:

The main point to using the 44 center or even a 9" center is clearance. The 60 center is a freaking snow plow & I know what I'm talking about when it comes to plows...

Matt

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But what do you know about snow? Jeff

Jeff 98XJ WI said:

But what do you know about snow? Jeff

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You got me on that one. Point, Game, Match!