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Jeep Street and Performance Do you like to go fast in your Jeep?

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  #1  
Old November 17th, 2014, 16:24
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markaboo929 markaboo929 is offline
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YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

I have about 25k on my stroker and it developed a small "tapping" sound in the bottom end.Well it got so bad in the past month or so that it threw a running rich code,but was'nt to bad to drive.Noise however never got loud or anything and actually went barely noticeable when up to running temp at times.Today after getting off the highway lost total power,would not idle and stalled out.I tried to start it up and BAM! no compression sound when cranking.Had it towed back to house.LESSON ONE.. NNNNOOOOOOO CRANE CAMS!!!!! I called the tech line and told them to STOP product!!!! I have been an Master ASE tech for 28 years and am very picky about my own vehicles.I had Crower cam saver lifters,broke it in the right way.and used Valvoline non-synthetic VR-1 since day one.I had thought not to use the crane brand at first...now I am kicking myself in the arse.Umm did I mention not to use Crane?,...EVER!!
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  #2  
Old November 17th, 2014, 16:36
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markaboo929 markaboo929 is offline
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Stroker base...
4.6L low-buck stroker
Jeep 4.2L 3.895" stroke crank
Jeep 4.0L 6.125" rods
Keith Black UEM-IC944-030 pistons
9.6:1 CR
CompCams 68-231-4 206/214 degree camshaft
Ported HO 1.91"/1.50" cylinder head
Mill block deck 0.020"
Mopar/Victor 0.043" head gasket
0.050" quench height
Ford 24lb/hr injectors with adjustable FPR or MAP adjuster for '87-'95 engines, Ford 24lb/hr injectors for '96-'04 engines, '99-'00 Chevy LS1 26.2lb/hr injectors for '05-'06 engines
264hp @ 4900rpm, 324lbft @ 3500rpm
Just ordered this cam...
http://www.pbm-erson.com/Catalog/Ers...t_E/ERSE720112
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  #3  
Old November 17th, 2014, 19:07
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sidewaysstarion sidewaysstarion is offline
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markaboo929 View Post
I have about 25k on my stroker and it developed a small "tapping" sound in the bottom end.Well it got so bad in the past month or so that it threw a running rich code,but was'nt to bad to drive.Noise however never got loud or anything and actually went barely noticeable when up to running temp at times.Today after getting off the highway lost total power,would not idle and stalled out.I tried to start it up and BAM! no compression sound when cranking.Had it towed back to house.LESSON ONE.. NNNNOOOOOOO CRANE CAMS!!!!! I called the tech line and told them to STOP product!!!! I have been an Master ASE tech for 28 years and am very picky about my own vehicles.I had Crower cam saver lifters,broke it in the right way.and used Valvoline non-synthetic VR-1 since day one.I had thought not to use the crane brand at first...now I am kicking myself in the arse.Umm did I mention not to use Crane?,...EVER!!
What is the point of failure? how did the cam cause your motor to lose compression? You said it was running rich, what would have caused that? You say never to run a crane came, but you aren't giving us any reasons as to how the cam caused the death of your motor.
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I seem to have run out of self tapping washers
99 4.0/AW4/231, with a few basic bolt ons.

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  #4  
Old November 17th, 2014, 19:31
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

OK...here we go.After about 10k on motor developed a slight tapping noise from mid lower oil pan area..I have searched for issue and on you tube there is a video of noise what appears to be presumed as a flywheel.My motor had the exact same sound,not a flywheel.check.Noise got a little louder after another 10k or so.Had a little less power under 2k and had slight hesitation.Threw a P0420 code cat below efficiency.Mind you now it had a all new exhaust system installed,cat and all,new header when motor was built.Thought nothing of it kept driving it,idle was pretty rough.Head is good no smoke or loss of compression,missfire etc...kept getting low on power...never ran hot or loss coolant.Driving on highway today and loss lots of power.Got off highway and it just stalled out,tried to start it got it running but would not rev up.Let it sit a bit...bam!!! started to crank it and would not start...sounded like no plugs installed.My belief is that it was running with such a worn out cam that the ecm threw the sode...running rich due to valves not opening correctly.When i tried to start it back up...the lifters bled down and what little left to open the valves just could not do it.It can not be the head gasket or valves at this point.Head gasket has tell tale signs of loss coolant,overheating,raised oil level...etc..Valves would have given a constant missfire on one or more cylinders,checked plugs...not black or fuel foulded,never had any smoke out the tail pipe.
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  #5  
Old November 17th, 2014, 19:50
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Side note,first thing I did was remove the oil cap and had my GF crank it.Vales were openjing and closing,not a timing chain and/or gears.
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  #6  
Old November 18th, 2014, 05:27
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

I'd like to see pictures when you get to the cam and lifters.

EDIT: Was there any noise from the valve train?
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Last edited by Hypoid; November 18th, 2014 at 05:34.
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  #7  
Old November 18th, 2014, 07:01
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Sorry to hear about your cam failure. I went through the same pain 8 years ago at the 34k mile mark and reverted back to my old stock cam with new lifters. Knock on wood, 43k miles later the engine still runs like a champ.
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  #8  
Old November 18th, 2014, 08:09
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markaboo929 View Post
Side note,first thing I did was remove the oil cap and had my GF crank it.Vales were openjing and closing,not a timing chain and/or gears.
If the valves are opening and closing, your lose of compression isn't cam related, and more likely either burnt valves or damaged pistons, neither of which is cam related.
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Originally Posted by cracker
I seem to have run out of self tapping washers
99 4.0/AW4/231, with a few basic bolt ons.

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  #9  
Old November 18th, 2014, 10:22
Talyn Talyn is offline
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

I'm finding it hard to believe that the enough of the lobes wore down to create as little compression as you describe. Especially going from slightly rough to wiped lobes in a single highway drive. It also doesn't sound like you opened the engine yet to investigate.
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  #10  
Old November 18th, 2014, 10:38
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Keith Black forged pistons,I would be hard pressed if those were damaged.For if they we're lots of raw gasoline would be in crankcase,nope.Having Valves go bad,I believe, would have been possibly a few at best,but all of them?No Valve train noise,but had the lower end sound as described.Other thing in my mind is that possible lifters failure?A valve can open and close and be out of time and still exhibit no compression.Maybe cam broke and can only see the few under the cap open/close?
Pictures will follow when I open it up.Now mind you that there was no smoke out of the tailpipe.Best thing I can do to rule out valves is to unbolt the rocker arms so all valves are closed and fill it with compressed air via spark plug hole and listen for air leak @ the exhaust and T-Body.But my mind says cam,just due to the fact of the lower tapping sound which with a higher than stock spring pressure can be emitted from the bottom end and not just @ the upper/rocker end.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:49
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
I'm finding it hard to believe that the enough of the lobes wore down to create as little compression as you describe. Especially going from slightly rough to wiped lobes in a single highway drive. It also doesn't sound like you opened the engine yet to investigate.
It has been building up to the failure...not just one drive.Over time it has lost power more and more.No I have not opened it up yet,I am waiting for the outside temp to come up a bit.I'll perform the air leak test first,that should let me know right away IF it is the Valves and/or head.I have not seen in my years of repair have all valves in a head go bad though unless it was an interference engine and a timing belt snapped,and usually lt it is only a few not all..But hey if they are,I can't say that anymore!!
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:57
Talyn Talyn is offline
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

I haven't seen all the valves fail in that manner as well except, as you said, in an interference engine with a broken chain or belt. But I have also not seen all the lobes fail in the same manner. Usually it starts with one lob or a couple going out noticeably first. Unless something was done majorly wrong. What springs were you using?

I would lean toward a timing chain problem.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 10:58
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Sound just like this.....exactly.since the 10k mark and got slightly louder over time,not much though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153_r38bn9M
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:11
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talyn View Post
I haven't seen all the valves fail in that manner as well except, as you said, in an interference engine with a broken chain or belt. But I have also not seen all the lobes fail in the same manner. Usually it starts with one lob or a couple going out noticeably first. Unless something was done majorly wrong. What springs were you using?

I would lean toward a timing chain problem.
I would like to see a sheared woodruff key that is what I thought...I used a rollmaster chain set for my build.The head builder that did my head did a 3 angle valve job,stock valves.He had back cut the exhaust valves.He assured me it was a small improvement as he does it to chevy heads.He is a very reputable machinist.Put it this way. Roush Yates it litteraly 8 miles from my location and I approached them to build my head and block work.They refered me to him.He used the cam card for spring pressures 107#'s on the seat .What he did use was chevy vortec head hi po beehive springs,cut the valve pocket to installed hieght of the cam card. 1.7 I believe.Stock retainers and locks.I sounded real mean when it ran for the first 10k...Intake was exceptional loud really...like a diesel
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:25
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Re: YEP!! a nother Crane cam failure!!!

One thing I have to mention is,but I do not think it is related.Although the power had a slight hesitation under 2000 rpm after 10k or so...it ran really good plenty of power but that slight noise in pan area.I did get into a front end collision that took out header panel,rad,fan clutch/ hub and bent the factory front skid plate.Repaired all of that...took it for a ride and noticed bogging down when up to operating temp on the highway.Got worse overtime from there on.I chased the issue a lot from all sensors to fuel pump and regulator...destroyed the cat from rich running,so I hollowed it out for now.MY first thought was it was running after the impact and was hitting the balancer against the rad and put strain on the motor and could have sheared the woodruff key from stress.It did develope the rough idle soon after the accident.
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