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Turbo Solution?

MuddinXJ

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Greenwood, IN
Just found a site that makes a bolt on turbo kit for TJ/YJ and was wondering if it could be adapted to the older(88-90) Cherokees w/o the HO motor? Its from 505 Performance(www.505performance.com) and the kit looks pretty stout. It includes new oil pan, guages, all hoses/lines, new engine management system. Just wondering if any of you have heard of this company and what you thought? Could it be easily adapted to the XJ? Just wondering because if Im still not satisfied after new cam this is going to be last straw to get more power.
 
From the picture and general knowledge of xj's vs. tj/yj engines, it seems that hood clearance would be the major factor in adapting the kit, but anything is posible, it just depends on your budget and fab skill. It also looks like it is not A/C compatable.
 
Honestly, for XJ turbo solutions, you are better off building it yourself than trying to adapt...with using YJ/TJ kits, the issue is almost always clearance with everything else used under the hood...on an XJ it is possible to fit a fairly large turbo directly under the intake manifold, along with a wastegate and BOV if you want to go this route...

Take a look at this post: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21103&highlight=turbo

Also I know there is a guy on Jeeps Unlimited that is just getting ready to get his 4.6L turbocharged stroker up and running, you might want to check there as well.
 
phaythe said:
Honestly, for XJ turbo solutions, you are better off building it yourself than trying to adapt...with using YJ/TJ kits, the issue is almost always clearance with everything else used under the hood...on an XJ it is possible to fit a fairly large turbo directly under the intake manifold, along with a wastegate and BOV if you want to go this route...

Take a look at this post: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21103&highlight=turbo

Also I know there is a guy on Jeeps Unlimited that is just getting ready to get his 4.6L turbocharged stroker up and running, you might want to check there as well.
i don't understand why it would work on the Renix XJs and not the HOs, considering the YJs and TJs never had the Renix engine, but they did have the HOs.
 
Why would you put something that gets as hot as a turbo gets under the intake. Turbos are known to glow red under use. Thats just asking for trouble.


I don't know what the supras setup look like but there a turbo I6 car. I just don't see how it would work where the intake and exhaust are on the same side. For better performance you need to have the turbo as close to the header as possible.



BuGG
 
BuGG said:
Why would you put something that gets as hot as a turbo gets under the intake. Turbos are known to glow red under use. Thats just asking for trouble.
Red like this??
2311_12mg.jpg
 
Proper heat sheilding on the intake manifold, and proper coating on the exhaust manifold/exhaust housing of the turbo should take care of heat problems. And if your internals are properly built, the gain in power will be so great as to completley outweight the fact that your intake temps are going to be higher than "recommended." Now as for reliability, I would consider it somewhat out of the question. Anytime you put forced induction on a non-forced induction engine, you are asking for trouble. Id say go for it if you have the money, I sure would. You arent going to want a big turbo(that will get in the way of the intake manifold) anyway, the more lag you have the worse its going to be offroad. You are looking for big torque downlow, unless you have a deisel thats just not gonna happen. Go with a small turbo, make it fit as far away from your intake as possible and youll be fine! If you want a custom manifold, and have the money, I know people that will make anything you want. I have even toyed with the idea with them. Let me know if you want a custom tubular exhaust manifold, you can place the turbo anywhere you want.
 
On a stock bottom end and head, I wouldn't go anything above 7psi under any conditions (unless perhaps if you're running race fuel...) But if you plan on boosting up high on a 4.0, plan on getting the engine built first. Not to mention the rest of the drivetrain...

But with the 4.0L, turbo design constraints are just a fact of life...it's hard to get the turbo away from the intake side, so we just have to deal with it. As Atl-Atl said, properly shielded and wrapped, it isn't that much of a problem, especially since we have heat issues with the intake being right above the manifold anyways...all of us should be wrapping our header, or instulating our exhaust. The problem doesn't come from the turbo being under the intake...it comes from the design on of the head, putting them both on the same damn side.

Plus, if you are planning on wheeling still, a stroker is a better investment anyways, at least to begin with. If you really want to produce some power, your best bet is to build a stroker with high quality components, forged wherever possible. Then if you want to boost, you will know exactly what your block and head can handle before you start to break things...

But if you're just wanting power on the street, quick, dirty and easy (and you don't want to spray nitrous), a simple turbo setup may be the way to go. Using alcohol injection you may well be able to produce 10lbs of boost or more...but expect to break something sooner than later...massive power in an XJ isn't cheap, and you really do need to start "from the bottom up."
 
MuddinXJ,
I talked to Zach, the owner/designer/installer at 505 and he gave me the low down. He’s a nice person to deal with and sent pictures of an install and directions. The turbo is mounted on the passenger side in a modified bracket where the A/C normal sets. You can’t have A/C AND the turbo, its one or the other. The down pipe is cut in front of the tranny and diverted up to the turbo and back down. There is a tube that runs from the turbo across the valve cover and into the throttle body. It looks like it’s a little tight. As of 2 weeks ago they were in the process of installing one on an XJ. I’m waiting to see how it turns out before I put any money down. The kit comes with everything that I could foresee needing including gaskets, air filter, new down pipe, oil pan with taps & hard lines, the turbo itself, O2 sensor and a Hesco fuel management system. The instructions say it can be installed in 4 to 6 hours, but I’m betting more like a weekend. The kit is supposed to be some where between $3200 and $3800. If you can get to Farmington NM they will install it for $3200 total.
 
i dont need it installed. have put a complete TT kit on a supra before in less than one day. 6:00 am to 11:30 pm. food and drink was brought to me. I would have this thing whipped w/in 6 hours tops. No problem. I don't want to build a stroker because I don't want to take the motor out. If I wanted to take the motor the I6 definately wouldn't be going back in. Got a nice 427 SBC sitting in my garage. Don't feel like dropping it in though. Besides I have always loved turbo vehicles.

Anyways I'm gona to e-mail Zach and have him e-mail me when he gets stuff done.
 
Why not build in stages....like I hope to someday.

First, the head. Buy a spare head and do all the big valve, p'n'p, rr, and decking. While installing that, put on a shorty style header so that you can mount a turbo right at the flange.

Second, the turbo system. Build the system to work relatively low at first. 5 to 7 psi. You could work at squeezing in an intercooler somewhere.

Last would be to build the engine, possibly at a scheduled rebuild time. Use quality forged parts. I don't plan on stroking, just rebuilding with stronger parts. Then you could crank up the psi to at least 10. This might require that you put on a thicker head gasket from your procedure in stage 1. You want to keep the CR down a little before you turn up the boost, right?

This is all street, as far as I'm concerned. The stroker route doesn't thrill me because you gain power but lose mileage. The turbo should(theoretically) be a win-win situation.

will
 
Oh, and if you plan on doing a decent amount of offroading, or crawling at slow MPH's DO NOT do an air to air intercooler, it will heatsoak faster than you can say turbo cherokee!!! Do an air to water setup, it will work much better, and make more power than an air to air setup anyway!
 
Atl-Atl said:
Oh, and if you plan on doing a decent amount of offroading, or crawling at slow MPH's DO NOT do an air to air intercooler, it will heatsoak faster than you can say turbo cherokee!!! Do an air to water setup, it will work much better, and make more power than an air to air setup anyway!

so if the jeep was gonna be used for street only....or not at slow speeds....would an air to water setup still be better? or would it not matter much at that point?
 
First off, if I were building a forced induction off-road vehicle for low speeds, I'd go with a supercharger, and probably a centrifugal or a twin-screw design. Easier to keep cool with less "ram air." Having said that...

There are a number of ways to keep air charge temperatures down with a turbocharged engine. Of course, the simplest (short of very low boost pressure) is the use of the air-air intercooler, but you run headfirst into the fact that the heat capacity of the cooling medium is the same as that of the cooled medium, with the sole difference being the volume of cooling media available. That's a big difference, but at low vehicle speeds, not low enough.

The next way would be with an air-water intercooler, but there is another decision to make here - what to use for water? Do you use the water from the cooling system (which can work well, assuming very high boost pressures/therefore high temperatures or a very efficient cooling system)? Do you plumb an entirely separate cooling water system? If you do, where to you put the second radiator to cool the cooling water, or do you do an "icebox" for short runs? Either way, you have to figure out how much water the system can hold (or if it holds enough for both jobs) and make sure you can keep it circulating fast enough to do the job(s). I've seen A-W intercooler systems using engine coolant, but it's a pain to set up.

So, if you use the air-water job and want to use a separate water circuit, you generate a whole slew of plumbing problems. First, you have to make absolutely sure your intercooler core DON'T and WON'T leak - hydrolocked engines aren't fun. Then, you have to route the hoses to and from the intercooler - with attention to keeping the cool hose cool. Run them into a pump somewhere (keeping it cool as well - you are trying to remove heat, not add it,) and still stick a useful reservior and a second radiator somewhere - and that second radiator needs to be exposed to ram air as well, or your water gets heat soaked and you don't get any benefit from it.
Now, do you use just water, or do you do an "ice-water" cooling system? Do you use "wet" ice? How about a two-champer reservior and "dry" ice? Either way, you will lose the excellent cooling right away and you'll likely notice the decrease in power.

Now, a couple interesting ideas I have seen are these...

1) Use liquified gasses to cool the intercooler on an air-air setup. I have seen a couple setups that were rigged with CO2 syphon tanks to blow liquid CO2 over an air-air intercooler on demand, and I've heard of it done with liquid nitrogen as well. Again, the capacity of the extra cooling is limited to the amount of cryo gas you can carry around and how often/cheaply you can gt it filled, but it's a thought.

2) Refrigeration. It is possible to modify the air conditioning setup to use the evaporator as an intercooler core, and have true "active" charge cooling. This is a measure for relatively high boost pressures, as you would have to offset the power drain of constantly running the air conditioner.

Of the two, I'd probably use the former (with some sort of "fog" nozzles) for anything under 40mph cruising or for low-speed pulling. That, and some rather large hood vents...

5-90
 
Heat wrap on a header or downpipe will crack your pipe. Jet coating will not bring down the temps enough to stop heat soak into the intake.

Mounting a turbo on the passenger side is interesting. Its kinda far from the intake so lagg might occur. But I'd like to see some pics of the setup.


BuGG
 
dothedew24_7 said:
Red like this??
2311_12mg.jpg
i really doubt anybody would be working their 4.0 so hard that it would glow like this.....this is working seriously hard. and if the turbo glows, your headers are basically just as hot, so its probably a moot point. and thats a diesel right??? b/c it really looks like one.
 
I build turbo cars as a hobby. Mostly Hondas but some domestics. I would never buy a prefab kit. I always buy piece by piece. That way you get what you want and you'll save tons of money. I was considering boostin the Jeep but maybe next year.
 
do it! a lowered 2wd xj with a light street cage would handle awsome, weigh 3000 lbs, and a totally built motor w/ a turbo and proper cam could give 450 or more hp, and 600-ish in torque! with the right gears, built proper, let's just say you could give a shelby cobra a "run for the money" - with a jeep!!! :D :D :D :D :D
 
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