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Long Term Fuel Trim at 92. Renix

Passed CA smog

HC 15mph max 123 measured 123
25mph max 103 measured 60



CO% 15mph max .73 measured .18
25mph max .93 measured .07


The LTFT was at 99 says the Snap on mt 2500 when I had it tested.

The STFT were back and forth across the 128 region

So it is possible to pass smog with a LTFT well below stoic.

The "Troubleshooter cartridge" on the brick says 140 - 118 is a normal LTFT range, so that's what I was striving for prior to testing.
 
ahh the LTFT does not mean its running below stoic. its just its mixture deviation to maintain stoic. STFT should always bounce between rich and lean or above 128 and below 128. as the oxygen sensor is more of a binary bit switch in this application. it will average the rich readings with the lean readings to achieve stoic.
 
What about the NOx readings?

I wonder if the LTFT resets to 128 if you disconnect the battery for a while.



Passed CA smog

HC 15mph max 123 measured 123
25mph max 103 measured 60



CO% 15mph max .73 measured .18
25mph max .93 measured .07


The LTFT was at 99 says the Snap on mt 2500 when I had it tested.

The STFT were back and forth across the 128 region

So it is possible to pass smog with a LTFT well below stoic.

The "Troubleshooter cartridge" on the brick says 140 - 118 is a normal LTFT range, so that's what I was striving for prior to testing.
 
Something I read indicates that an LTFT that is not 128 means it is deviating long term from the ECU's base table numbers. If true, the question is why. larger or smaller fuel injection flow that expected by the OEM tables. Could be bias on a temp sensor, MAP sensor, or TPS sensor or the injectors I would think. No reason the computer can not compensate up to a point....with a good O2 sensor.

ahh the LTFT does not mean its running below stoic. its just its mixture deviation to maintain stoic. STFT should always bounce between rich and lean or above 128 and below 128. as the oxygen sensor is more of a binary bit switch in this application. it will average the rich readings with the lean readings to achieve stoic.
 
it pretty much is the compensation from the o2 sensor. it can change from driving habits, moisture in the air,gas quality, temperature and altitude. even a restrictive air filter would cause it to go down. do to the lack of air it expects. also im sure the blend of fuel has changed since the 80's when it was designed.

i have noticed that if i drive gently the long term goes around 100 ish. but if i stomp on the gas and drive aggressive it comes back up.
 
Might be true with a MAF sensor, but not as much with a MAP sensor on the dirty filter? Although the data tables might still be an issue? Hard to say with out knowing how the code was written. The IAT temp sensor handles temp changes. Altitude is an interesting point as the Renix had a high altitude CPS for places like Denver...

I need to test mine more. It was reading 128 LTFT all day long the 3 times I check it so far. I am at sea level.

Moisture maybe.

it pretty much is the compensation from the o2 sensor. it can change from driving habits, moisture in the air,gas quality, temperature and altitude. even a restrictive air filter would cause it to go down. do to the lack of air it expects. also im sure the blend of fuel has changed since the 80's when it was designed.

i have noticed that if i drive gently the long term goes around 100 ish. but if i stomp on the gas and drive aggressive it comes back up.
 
i just wanted to add on wednesday on my drive to work my LTFT was around 120 and as i came to a stop i looked down at my engine monitor and the LTFT just counted right up to 126 in about 3 seconds. the STFT seemed to be normal.
 
i just wanted to add on wednesday on my drive to work my LTFT was around 120 and as i came to a stop i looked down at my engine monitor and the LTFT just counted right up to 126 in about 3 seconds. the STFT seemed to be normal.

So maybe the Renix does have a stored memory of computed values used as dynamic tables for fueling and timing that eventually show up as a 128 LTFT if you drive long enough and if everything is working well enough for LTFT to reach 128? I wonder if that affects emissions? If it does, then folks should drive their rigs for a long time after installing new parts like O2 sensors to give the ECU time to build its own operating data tables for the mix of existing sensors and operating values for ignition timing and fuel injection on time and start to open times, for the best values over time.

I changed my O2 sensor about 600 miles ago, and the first 4-5 weeks of MPGs was crap, but this tank seems to back to normal. I was wondering why. Now I wish I had monitored my LTFT all this time.
 
seems to be running well. and doesn't have a rich smell to the exhaust. its surprising that its that close. on an engine with almost 300,000mi on it.
 
I have found that on Renix the LTFT is a sum of history that is kept in KAM Keep Alive Memory, which means disconnecting the battery would start the LTFT over from scratch.

I am having an acceleration miss in park and miss at higher rpms than idle, idle is smooth. With a low, 30-50 range STFT most of the time. Looking for answers. You list is down to sticking injectors for me. BUt I may clear the memory tomorrow and see if the new O2 sensor I installed about 700 miles ago and the STFT is fighting the old LTFT memory till they match up????

less than 128 is removing fuel from engine above the 128 is commanding to add more fuel.

if your running below 128
causes could be
fuel pressure higher than 39psi
dirty air filter
leaky fuel injectors
faulty o2 sensor/circuit
faulty egr valve/circuit

i have mostly replaced everything on my 88 including an entire set of different injectors and im sitting about 110 last i checked.

is your short term staying at 128? im pretty sure if you dont go into closed loop it will never reset the long term trim. and it could take a few days to slowly creep back up.

you can force a reset by disconnecting the battery and see if it dips back down
 
Interesting thread, and well timed info as I just got one of those Renix Engine Monitors and also replaced an 02 sensor. I'm still playing with it, but I noticed my LTFT was at 166. After diagnosing a bad 02 (stuck open loop) and replacing it, I am noticing the LTFT dropping slowly over a period of several weeks, mostly just putting around town. Last I checked it was around 142.

This made me think about the old "does renix store data" question etc. I'd be interested to hear what happens if you disconnect your battery Mike - maybe that's a better way to get to 128 than having the ECU slowly adjust? I have a CA smog check due by August, and I'm not too worried because all my other numbers are dialed in but still...
 
I tested the good, I thought, LOL, working jeep with the Snap-on MT-2500 and it started and ran in open loop (I had pulled the O2 sensor heater power relay to keep in open loop at first), and it ran with the LTFT and STFT both rock solid at 128. No doubt in open loop it uses the tables, thus both park at 128 open loop???

In closed loop the STFT moved up over 128 at times when I reved the rig. LTFT was solid at 128.

It took about 10 minutes to reach closed loop with the O2 sensor heater power relay removed, while mine went closed loop at idle in 2-3 seconds with the relays removed, so my exhaust on the problem rig is hot, so some cylinders must be real rich (open loop rich mode) and some lean (HOT) on mine heating that O2 sensor up so fast???

In closed loop the good rig read RICH for low voltage, but I discovered that the scanner RICH/LEAN message is locked in an old data state when the rig is in open loop. That is what threw me, in part. Its a red herring.

In open loop the good rig voltage was low, so low voltage is a rich state. In closed loop it read rich at low voltage and lean at high voltage and switched very quickly which confirmed that low voltage is rich.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I disconnected the battery on my problem rig, and still got the same test results as before. No changes, very low STFT, like 30 +/- 20 at idle in Open-closed????, arg my notes don't say which loop, and read 128 on both fuel trims in open loop at 1500 RPM, but it seemed to run smoother, but still has a problem, stumble miss, just not as bad and happens at higher rpms today. Still goes to about 1.0 Volts open loop after a miss from reving or higher rpms, and takes a while at idle to get back to closed loop. I need to confirm if the low STFT is in open or closed loop at idle again since I cleared the memory.

At 1500 RPM O2 data was down to 1.3 Volts, rich, open loop and the STFT went to 128??? WTF??? I guess the Fuel trims are now both going to 128 in open loop after clearing the memory from disconnecting the battery.

If that is the case then at idle in open loop the STFT should be 128 also, and then in closed loop at idle the STFT going way down. But if STFT is going down so far to keep it in closed loop, it must be response to the problem I chasing down!!! Ah HA!!!!

So Renix does store sensor and performance optimization data as I have been saying for 8 years!!! Just no know way to retrieve it yet.



TPS passed all the tests. All the sensors on both rigs tested the same, all working good in spec.

Interesting thread, and well timed info as I just got one of those Renix Engine Monitors and also replaced an 02 sensor. I'm still playing with it, but I noticed my LTFT was at 166. After diagnosing a bad 02 (stuck open loop) and replacing it, I am noticing the LTFT dropping slowly over a period of several weeks, mostly just putting around town. Last I checked it was around 142.

This made me think about the old "does renix store data" question etc. I'd be interested to hear what happens if you disconnect your battery Mike - maybe that's a better way to get to 128 than having the ECU slowly adjust? I have a CA smog check due by August, and I'm not too worried because all my other numbers are dialed in but still...
 
Just gonna add a little input as I was quickly browsing the thread. Renix ECUs do have a KAM Keep Alive Memory which does store a few values such as previous LTFT, TPS closed %, and how many key cycles since a sensor fault, though I'm still trying to find that last one. The big debate is if Renix stores trouble codes which it does not save for the key cycle.

I'm going to do a lot more looking into the few mystery values still left in the stream to see what I can find eventually.

As for LTFT in general, after a reset it will read 128 which means it is using the stock look-up table. Once the vehicle sucesfully stays in closed loop then it will start adjusting STFT and an average deviation will be found which is the LTFT.

So LTFT shows you the average correction factor from the stock tables that is needed to stay stoic. STFT is the current needed deviation I think, and I forget if that changes in open loop.

Lower LTFT readings means it is using less fuel to stay stoic, and higher readings show more fuel is required. For my stroker it sits are 176 but will go a little lower if only city driving.
 
I think I just located my STFT and acceleration miss, backfiring problem. A cracked and hard to locate plastic vacuum line crack in the line to the MAP sensor I missed in two prior inspections. Had to pull the entire line off to get the fuel rail out, and bang, there it was. Scanners were no help at finding or isolating the cause. But I always kept thinking it acted like a MAP vacuum problem. It was pretty shot too.

I tested the good, I thought, LOL, working jeep with the Snap-on MT-2500 and it started and ran in open loop (I had pulled the O2 sensor heater power relay to keep in open loop at first), and it ran with the LTFT and STFT both rock solid at 128. No doubt in open loop it uses the tables, thus both park at 128 open loop???

In closed loop the STFT moved up over 128 at times when I reved the rig. LTFT was solid at 128.

It took about 10 minutes to reach closed loop with the O2 sensor heater power relay removed, while mine went closed loop at idle in 2-3 seconds with the relays removed, so my exhaust on the problem rig is hot, so some cylinders must be real rich (open loop rich mode) and some lean (HOT) on mine heating that O2 sensor up so fast???

In closed loop the good rig read RICH for low voltage, but I discovered that the scanner RICH/LEAN message is locked in an old data state when the rig is in open loop. That is what threw me, in part. Its a red herring.

In open loop the good rig voltage was low, so low voltage is a rich state. In closed loop it read rich at low voltage and lean at high voltage and switched very quickly which confirmed that low voltage is rich.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I disconnected the battery on my problem rig, and still got the same test results as before. No changes, very low STFT, like 30 +/- 20 at idle in Open-closed????, arg my notes don't say which loop, and read 128 on both fuel trims in open loop at 1500 RPM, but it seemed to run smoother, but still has a problem, stumble miss, just not as bad and happens at higher rpms today. Still goes to about 1.0 Volts open loop after a miss from reving or higher rpms, and takes a while at idle to get back to closed loop. I need to confirm if the low STFT is in open or closed loop at idle again since I cleared the memory.

At 1500 RPM O2 data was down to 1.3 Volts, rich, open loop and the STFT went to 128??? WTF??? I guess the Fuel trims are now both going to 128 in open loop after clearing the memory from disconnecting the battery.

If that is the case then at idle in open loop the STFT should be 128 also, and then in closed loop at idle the STFT going way down. But if STFT is going down so far to keep it in closed loop, it must be response to the problem I chasing down!!! Ah HA!!!!

So Renix does store sensor and performance optimization data as I have been saying for 8 years!!! Just no know way to retrieve it yet.



TPS passed all the tests. All the sensors on both rigs tested the same, all working good in spec.
 
Interesting thread, and well timed info as I just got one of those Renix Engine Monitors and also replaced an 02 sensor. I'm still playing with it, but I noticed my LTFT was at 166. After diagnosing a bad 02 (stuck open loop) and replacing it, I am noticing the LTFT dropping slowly over a period of several weeks, mostly just putting around town. Last I checked it was around 142.

This made me think about the old "does renix store data" question etc. I'd be interested to hear what happens if you disconnect your battery Mike - maybe that's a better way to get to 128 than having the ECU slowly adjust? I have a CA smog check due by August, and I'm not too worried because all my other numbers are dialed in but still...

Followup on this, because I know it's frustrating when people don't:

The LTFT slowly dropped from 142, but about ten days ago I did a pre-smog plug/wire/cap/rotor tuneup. I decided I'd disconnect the battery cables and reset the ECU when I finished. Per one of Nick's REMs, when I started it up my LTFT was at 128. Today, after 10days/~80 miles of mostly-city driving the trim reads 113 and I averaged 12mpg (3.55s/31s).

All the other sensors were showing numbers in spec so I took it for a 50 mile drive and rolled it straight into the smog station. My guy recognised me immediately and said that about a month ago he figured "that red jeep" was due again hahah. Did the dyno test straight away while I paced nervously around - the results were great, passed easily with numbers extremely similar to two years ago:

3yrZWa3.png


The -only- change I made in those two years was installing volvo 746 injectors and a new 02 sensor. The 2015 smog was with oem injectors.

Relevant stuff:
Volvo 280-155-746 injectors
60mm bored TB from strokedjeep
Catalytic 2 years old
NTK 02 sensor
3.55 gears, 31" tires
Ambient air temp: ~92 deg
SMOG region: LA County
 
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