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  #1  
Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:15
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Hi all,

apparently the battery is the weak point on my XJ, it's been a problem since before I bought the thing. When I got said XJ, the battery was leaking like mad and had destroyed both battery cables. So I bought a cable kit from Jon Kelley aka 5/90 and a yellow top and also stripped/derusted the hold-down and coated it in plasti-dip. At that point I was thinking that my problems were over...

I've had several problems since. First, the battery will not stay in place in the battery tray and keeps shifting forward and rubbing against the upper radiator hose. Today I decided to fix that; I took a silicone baking sheet and cut it to fit the tray, and also cut out around the temp sensor so it could still poke through. I've used this stuff before to make liners for the recessed areas on the top of the dash of my F*rd pickup; it's great, now I can toss change, wallet, cell etc. up there and not have it fly out the window next time I go around a corner. I am hoping that this will friction-lock the bottom of the battery and the tray together so it won't slide around any more.

I recently had the Jeep in for an A/C service and the guy said something like "your battery cables were real loose, I tightened them up for you." Well they were tight when I installed them! Now I did not use the brass ones from Jon but some lead ones from the parts store, because here's the problem, the brass ones will not fit over the posts and nobody around here sells a battery cable terminal spreader for less than $30 or so! Anyone know a good source for one? Also would like to find a reamer like my buddy has that has good blades on it held at a precise angle to clean up the ID of the brass ones. Haven't seen one anywhere... the one I bought from amazon is shite and won't even touch the brass. The lead ones I used are crap, the bolts holding the cables down to the terminals (I used ones that you'd use to replace the end of an old cable, and just used the two bolts and holes for the connections to the new cables, with copper washers under the heads of the bolts) were loose as well, I probably only have 1500 miles or less on this setup, can't deal with that. So I really need a good spreader and a good reamer so I can use the good brass terminals. (this might explain why last night I noticed that the compass on my rear view mirror kept rebooting while I was driving; I suspected a bad connection where I spliced in power to the radio harness ,but now I'm thinking it all goes back to this mess at the battery that I keep trying to make right and still haven't yet.)

Now here's the worst problem. All I just did was remove the battery for about 10 minutes to cut/install the silicone sheet in the battery tray. Now my heep won't start! It turns over fine, and the dome light is good and bright, but it won't even try to fire. What. The. Hell. I literally parked in in the driveway last night, removed and replaced the battery and did not touch anything else, and it won't start. Any ideas...? This happened to me once before, I left it sit for a while and then never had a problem after that until today. Usually fires right up in 3-4 sec or less.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:29
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

OK, I just tried it again. It fired up, ran rough for a little bit (not surprising as battery was unhooked, check engine light came on (which I've never seen except at bulb check time before,) and it died a few seconds later. Only code is P1694. I also noticed that the volt and fuel gauges worked when it started, but now do not. I'm puzzled as P1694 isn't even in my powertrain manual...! Does this sound like a problem anyone has experienced before, or am I just going to have to start troubleshooting?
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  #3  
Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:33
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the_weirdo the_weirdo is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

P1694
Fault In Companion Module
No CCD/J1850 messages received from the powertrain control module-Asian transmission.

P1694 (M)
No BUS CCD Messages Received from ECM
Bus communication failure to PCM.

I think this tends to be the Crank Position Sensor.
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  #4  
Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:37
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Where did you look up the code? (not doubting you, I just figured that I should be able to look up a P-code in the powertrain manual, which I have)

Also, no bus = bad CPS? I thought DTCs were supposed to help you find the problem, not lead you astray *shrug* well I don't think it's ever been replaced, so let me see if NAPA has one on the shelf. The CPS is the one on the bellhousing right?
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:39
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the_weirdo the_weirdo is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Yes, a bad CPS can throw a "no bus" condition.
CPS is on the bellhousing.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...ighlight=p1694
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...ighlight=p1694
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/p...p1698-1082540/
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  #6  
Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:58
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

OK I found this

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/c...-maybe-889010/

tried to test - unplugging sensor does NOT make gauges work again

pins A and B are open, B and C 20K ohms... does not sound conclusive. But sounds like symptoms actually are typical of bad sensor? Another thing fuel pump (I think? Something at back of vehicle anyway) is very loud (wasn't before) and keeps running.

$70-some at NAPA for new sensor... tempted to go try it as they close in 2 hrs. don't have a whole lot of time to troubleshoot more, but that's almost real money.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 13:43
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

It's not the crank position sensor, or else I got a bad one from NAPA. Additionally I am wondering if I have a bad fuel pump. I do have fuel under pressure at the rail but I do not have a gauge set to test it. Fuel pump in tank is very loud, I did not notice that before. What's above the shield in front of the rear axle, is that another fuel pump or is that just an accumulator? There's no noise coming from that area with the key on. I don't have a helper to test for spark so I'm kinda stuck right now.

Do the crank sensor bolts have loctite on them from the factory? I got a bad hand cramp right now. Kind of a PITA job.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 14:15
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Hah. found the problem, started looking around coil/dist area (and I just did a tuneup as well so I didn't expect to find anything) here my idiot friend who "helped" me replace the battery cables left the nut from the battery negative cable to the engine block finger tight. Apparently R&Ring the battery was enough to move it into a nonfunctional position. I guess this means that I should replace the head to firewall cable now, because if that were actually operational that would have masked the problem. (I have it as I ordered the whole kit from Jon, I just never replaced it because it wasn't visibly bad and I had plenty of stuff that looked like shit to repair.)

BTW NAPA didn't have any battery terminal spreaders or reamers, question still stands, where the hell do I buy this stuff or do I have to give up and spend Snap-On prices to make my stuff right?
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 15:12
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

I can't even find a pic online of the battery terminal reamer that my friend has... it's the greatest tool ever for that purpose and now I will never find one it seems... it's a round piece of plastic with four heavy steel blades in it, set at the angle of the taper of a standard battery terminal... if you use the big end, you can clean up the lead terminals on the battery; if you use the skinny end you can lightly ream your cable clamps. Anyone know what I'm talking about and where I can buy one of these? (save from stealing it from my friend's tool box which would be not cool at all) searching online all I can find are brushes.

Anyway, I replaced that last cable so now everything should be all good save for my battery terminals themselves... also tensioned my fan belt, was waaaaay loose even though it's a new belt replaced by a shop a couple months ago. Hopefully now it won't scream at me when I start it up and turn the A/C on.

I shoulda bought the yellow top battery with the marine terminals, that would have saved me this hassle, but I got a screamin' deal on this one on eBay so whaddayagonnado.
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  #10  
Old June 3rd, 2012, 05:53
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Reverend Jim Reverend Jim is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Here's a reamer for ya... http://www.amazon.com/K-D-Tools-2173.../dp/B0002SRCM4
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  #11  
Old June 3rd, 2012, 06:26
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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That looks a lot like the one I have... It won't touch the brass. I just "made it work" - spread the crap out of them with a wrench handle, beat the bolts in with a hammer, installed. Don't think they can be removed from the battery without carnage but I can disconnect the cables with the wing nuts. Not the most elegant way to do this but I was sick of fiddling with it.
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Old June 16th, 2012, 10:29
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

follow up: I bought some Snap-On battery pliers off eBay that supposedly will both spread and clean terminals. However they will only spread terminals off the battery.

I swear that I've seen pliers before that look like heavy-duty versions of those door panel popper pliers that spread the terminals by going in the slot where the bolt goes and spreading them there. To get my terminals back off again to try my Snap-On pliers I would need something like that, or just use a screwdriver (which runs the risk of torquing the battery terminals.) I can't seem to find any pliers like that for sale anywhere however. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

I'm still looking for that reamer tool that my friend has with four rigid blades set in a plastic holder at an angle. I think it was Snap-On or Blue Point brand, but the interwebs turn up nothing there either. Anyone have any leads?

The good news is that so far after a couple trips around town the silicone baking sheet seems to have solved the shifting battery problem.
thanks...
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Old June 16th, 2012, 11:01
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GrimmJeeper GrimmJeeper is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8N_99xj View Post
I'm still looking for that reamer tool that my friend has with four rigid blades set in a plastic holder at an angle. I think it was Snap-On or Blue Point brand, but the interwebs turn up nothing there either. Anyone have any leads?

KD tools part number 2173 is what I use.

it looks like this http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-5785-ba...2939&sr =1-24

I got mine at napa, this one is a cheap chinese knock off. 2173 is the napa part number.
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Old June 16th, 2012, 11:05
N8N_99xj N8N_99xj is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

I have that exact tool, the cutter won't take the roughness off or ream out the brass terminals at all.

I guess the brass terminals are one use only? Haven't tried my friend's tool on them, don't know if it'd work or not but it seems more likely but I can't say for sure that it would.
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Old June 16th, 2012, 11:23
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GrimmJeeper GrimmJeeper is offline
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Re: battery cable clamps/now it won't start?

yes, brass terminals are too hard for that tool. the wire brush type would work better in that situation.
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