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  #1  
Old August 13th, 2019, 23:34
notamechanic notamechanic is offline
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Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Went to install a powertrax no slip tonight and ran into this issue. My pinion shaft will not clear my ring gear and therefor I canít remove it/remove spider and side gears to install locker.


Any tricks for installing this? Possible to install the locker without removing the pinion shaft? The person who installed my gears ground the center of the shaft to clear the c-clips for axle shaft removal. But not enough to get the thing out. Really donít want to remove the whole carrier/ring gear to install a lunch box.




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  #2  
Old August 14th, 2019, 05:52
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Ok, to begin with, that's commonly called the center pin, not the pinion shaft.

And this is common with non-stock ratio gear sets, especially the higher ones (4.56, 4.88, 5.13, etc). I had to grind down a tooth about 0.040" on the ring gear to get the center pin in on another vehicle when I installed 4.56 gears.

What this shows is laziness on the part of the installer. Usually, you can rotate the ring gear so the space needed for the center pin is between gear teeth, but that requires checking for clearance which many don't do as it may require putting on and taking off the ring gear a few times. The fact that the center pin was ground for clearance confirms the lazy factor, as they decided to do that instead of doing it correctly.

If the center pin has been ground , it is weaker, even in a stock open diff, and that same pin cannot be used for a locking diff, as the pin diameter is a key part of how it all works.

Can you push the pin thru the other direction ?

If not, your only choice is to either remove the carrier and remove/reinstall the ring gear (which requires setting it up again), or grind that offending tooth down just enough to give you the clearance you need.



Last edited by TRCM; August 14th, 2019 at 06:24.
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  #3  
Old August 14th, 2019, 06:46
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

All of this^^^
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  #4  
Old August 14th, 2019, 07:39
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

3 things to think about: First - fire your gear guy.Second - it got put together somehow. Third - you can't remove the carrier w/o first removing the shafts.
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  #5  
Old August 14th, 2019, 11:34
notamechanic notamechanic is offline
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Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRCM View Post
Ok, to begin with, that's commonly called the center pin, not the pinion shaft.

And this is common with non-stock ratio gear sets, especially the higher ones (4.56, 4.88, 5.13, etc). I had to grind down a tooth about 0.040" on the ring gear to get the center pin in on another vehicle when I installed 4.56 gears.

What this shows is laziness on the part of the installer. Usually, you can rotate the ring gear so the space needed for the center pin is between gear teeth, but that requires checking for clearance which many don't do as it may require putting on and taking off the ring gear a few times. The fact that the center pin was ground for clearance confirms the lazy factor, as they decided to do that instead of doing it correctly.

If the center pin has been ground , it is weaker, even in a stock open diff, and that same pin cannot be used for a locking diff, as the pin diameter is a key part of how it all works.

Can you push the pin thru the other direction ?

If not, your only choice is to either remove the carrier and remove/reinstall the ring gear (which requires setting it up again), or grind that offending tooth down just enough to give you the clearance you need.




Thanks for clearing up my terminology. The locker instructions identified the center pin as the pinion shaft.

.040 seems very little, I think Iíd need to grind at least twice that to get my center pin out. Any idea what would be considered safe or unsafe amount to grind off? Iím quite weary to do so since I spend so much on the regear.

The pin will not clear on the other side either. It actually meets between two of the ring gear teeth on one side, but still not nearly enough clearance to remove.

Will setting it back up be all that difficult? Since shim measurements are already set up. Also, i think Iíd have to grind the teeth down regardless. Will need to have the ability to remove it if I ever break a shaft.




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  #6  
Old August 14th, 2019, 11:39
notamechanic notamechanic is offline
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Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
3 things to think about: First - fire your gear guy.Second - it got put together somehow. Third - you can't remove the carrier w/o first removing the shafts.


Work was done by premier west gears here in SoCal. Not sure if anyoneís heard of them.

I can luckily at least remove the shafts due to the installer who notched the center pin. Just canít get the spider gears out without removing the center pin. Pretty frustrated, this was sort of the last big install to do on my Jeep. Thereís always something...


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Old August 14th, 2019, 12:01
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notamechanic View Post
I can luckily at least remove the shafts due to the installer who notched the center pin. Just canít get the spider gears out without removing the center pin.
That's just not right or safe, you need to fix this now before you hurt somebody.
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  #8  
Old August 14th, 2019, 14:16
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notamechanic View Post
Thanks for clearing up my terminology. The locker instructions identified the center pin as the pinion shaft.

.040 seems very little, I think Iíd need to grind at least twice that to get my center pin out. Any idea what would be considered safe or unsafe amount to grind off? Iím quite weary to do so since I spend so much on the regear.

The pin will not clear on the other side either. It actually meets between two of the ring gear teeth on one side, but still not nearly enough clearance to remove.

Will setting it back up be all that difficult? Since shim measurements are already set up. Also, i think Iíd have to grind the teeth down regardless. Will need to have the ability to remove it if I ever break a shaft.




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Wonder who wrote those instructions....the pinion shaft is the shaft the pinion gear is on......but anyway.

The bulk of the gear loading will be in the yellow area below if the gears are set up correctly, but seeing how what you have now was done, that is suspect.

The only choice if you don't want to grind the gear tooth is to remove the case and pull the ring gear off to remove the pin.

Setting it back up shouldn't be hard, but it could be, depending on how meticulous the person who set it up was. If he did the 'close enough' method (as it appears from the problem you are trying to fix), you may have to start all over again to get it all right.

Me, I'd just grind the tooth down, but be careful not to get grit all over, and make sure you thoroughly clean the area before putting it all back together.

Even if you have to grind 0.080", it shouldn't hurt unless you have killer power in front of it, or are known to use frequent side slipping of the clutch so as to shock load the pinion & ring gear.


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Old August 14th, 2019, 16:50
notamechanic notamechanic is offline
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Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRCM View Post
Wonder who wrote those instructions....the pinion shaft is the shaft the pinion gear is on......but anyway.



The bulk of the gear loading will be in the yellow area below if the gears are set up correctly, but seeing how what you have now was done, that is suspect.



The only choice if you don't want to grind the gear tooth is to remove the case and pull the ring gear off to remove the pin.



Setting it back up shouldn't be hard, but it could be, depending on how meticulous the person who set it up was. If he did the 'close enough' method (as it appears from the problem you are trying to fix), you may have to start all over again to get it all right.



Me, I'd just grind the tooth down, but be careful not to get grit all over, and make sure you thoroughly clean the area before putting it all back together.



Even if you have to grind 0.080", it shouldn't hurt unless you have killer power in front of it, or are known to use frequent side slipping of the clutch so as to shock load the pinion & ring gear.







Thanks for your detailed responses btw. Very helpful. Since grinding can be done with the gears in the vehicle I think Iím going to go that route. Also, wise to do considering trail repairs. What method or tool would you recommend for grinding? I know the temps need to stay below a certain amount to maintain the integrity of the metal.

Also, just refilled the pumpkin with some pricey stuff. Could I reuse the fluid if I only drive for a few days before pulling the cover again?


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  #10  
Old August 14th, 2019, 17:07
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

I would not consider re-use unless it was filtered....thru maybe a t-shirt ?

A grinder would work as long as you go slow, use light pressure, and let the metal cool down if it gets hot.

Or you could use a file or an air driven belt sander
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  #11  
Old August 14th, 2019, 18:55
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

If you can pull the shafts you should already be done. Measure the backlash, pull the carrier(there are no shims), pull the ring gear and grind it off the carrier, buy a new pinion cross-shaft, and re-assemble.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 19:16
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
If you can pull the shafts you should already be done. Measure the backlash, pull the carrier(there are no shims), pull the ring gear and grind it off the carrier, buy a new pinion cross-shaft, and re-assemble.
That would be best......
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  #13  
Old August 15th, 2019, 09:53
notamechanic notamechanic is offline
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Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

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Originally Posted by TRCM View Post
That would be best......


I would already be done if I had a garage and could leave my truck out. Iím working in a apartment complex parking spot after work out here hah.

Iím going to pull the cover off again this weekend and see if I can grind down the teeth with a file or grinding cylinder that I can use with my power drill. With the carrier in the housing.


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  #14  
Old August 15th, 2019, 10:11
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

You'll be there forever with a file, if at all. A stone on a drill might get you there but it won't go fast. A Dremel is what you really need and your going to make a mess so protect things at all cost's.
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Old August 15th, 2019, 11:05
VAhasnoWAVES VAhasnoWAVES is offline
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Re: Pinion shaft not clearing ring gear.

given your work space i would just whip out the grinder and grind the teeth until the cross shaft comes out. try to figure out which side requires less grinding and hit it with what ever tool you see fit. pack a welding blanket or something similar around the carrier. be mindful of where you are sending sparks. and clean the crap out of it with brake clean when you are done.

its pretty common practice to have to grind a tooth or two to get the cross shaft out of a stock carrier. sometimes you cant index the ring gear to the carrier in a manner that lets you pull it without grinding a tooth, but not always. dont sweat the fact that you are grinding teeth. as was already said, the major part of the contact patch is not on the area you need to grind. also, the tooth is not seeing the load from the pinion all by itself. it is always sharing the load with 2 or 3 other teeth.

definitely replace the cross shaft.
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