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On Liberals and gun control.

Powerman

Powerman

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Colorado
I am really asking a serious question. I really want to know. We all know about the "red and blue states". I would say that this site is mostly red. That is why I ask. I am not anything. To me the extreme left and right are just the same thing. Nothing but conspiracies and paronoia.

First off, I don't like the extreme left trying to save people from themselves with legislation. That would be my beef with them. I'm not really talking about the left, but I can't ask about gun control without being labled a liberal. I'm not a liberal.

I belive everyone has the basic right to protect themselves. I belive ANY gun is a perfectly reasonable weapon to do that with. However, what is so wrong with trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Why can't you even sugest such a thing without being labled a commie, bleeding heart liberal.

This will probably get locked up or deleted. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, and I am not trying to stir the pot. I am seriously asking for your opinion. To me it seems extreme on both sides of the issue. Another thread was getting muddy so I made this one to discuss it. Can we please be adult about this?
 
Gun control would be a great concept if it affected the people it was intended to. How does gun control keep firearms out of the hands of criminals? They're still going to purchase weapons through illegal means anyways. The only people that gun control laws keep from purchasing weapons are law abiding citizens.

Allowing people that follow the law to purchase firearms serves as an equalizer (in my mind at least).
 
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Keeping guns from criminals is a joke. If criminals followed the laws in the first place, they wouldn't be criminals. Making a law preventing them from having guns is a dream. It's a nice idea, but not based on reality.

There is a difference between making a law and enforcing it. Just because something is against the law doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Case in point, illegal immigration. There are lots of laws but the government simply isn't enforcing them. Most of the laws are not enforcable anyway in a real world. We just rely on volunteer compliance as a society.
 
IMHO, gun control laws do nothing to stop criminals from buying firearms. How many dirtbag criminals do you think go through legitimate channels to obtain guns? My guess is not too many. The current laws are an inconvenience to upstanding citizens looking to purchase firearms for hunting or sport purposes. Like I said, IMHO....
 
I do know that there is no way to stop a black market. I agree that criminals will do as they please.

The Brady bill was considered a triumph by the Liberals. The NRAers hated it. The dirty little secret was that it was absolutly meaningless. I did not accomplish anything. Except that you coudn't buy post ban hi cap mags. There was still plenty of pre bans.

What about all the problems these days with guns? Can anything be done? Does anyone think anything needs to be done? Like an exapmple is that before in some states that required a background, you didn't need one at a gun show. So bad guys would just buy from there. So some would say the loop hole needed to be closed, while others would say checks are stupid.

Also some people believe everybody should carry. In my state it is perfectly legal to carry open. I have and it drew too much attention. However, nobody does. Why don't more NRAers carry open? I would think some would love to.
 
DrMoab said:
retarded...just...retarded
Click to expand...

I appriciate your directness. And you just might be right, but I really am trying to learn more. At the end of this I might realise I should of listened to you in the first place.
 
CrankyYankee said:
IMHO, gun control laws do nothing to stop criminals from buying firearms. How many dirtbag criminals do you think go through legitimate channels to obtain guns? My guess is not too many. The current laws are an inconvenience to upstanding citizens looking to purchase firearms for hunting or sport purposes. Like I said, IMHO....
Click to expand...

Okay, devil's advocate here.

Can you honestly say that gun laws do nothing to prevent a criminal from purchasing firearms?

Gun laws force the criminal element to obtain firearms in unlawful manners ie, stealing or purchasing them from less than reputable dealers. But if there were no gun laws, criminal could freely and easily purchase said firearms from a legitimate gun shop. Thus, gun proliferation amongst the criminal element would rapidly increase.

Gun control laws don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but they do make more difficult for those criminals to obtain firearms. There will always be means for a criminal to obtain firearms, but that doesn't mean that we should hand them the keys to the gun store. . . .
 
Yes, something can be done.

Make it a law that every single household in the USA is armed and the house owners are trained to use their weapons.

Get these stupid states like Jersey, Mass, California and others to easy CCW restrictions and make it easier for the common citizen to be armed.

Don't you think it is kind of odd that the areas where it is hardest to get guns are the areas with the highest gun crime?

If you were a criminal and you wanted to rob someone would you rather rob someone in a town where there was a good chance that who you were robbing might shoot back or a town where you know the honest Joe isn't going to have a weapon where they are illegal.
 
DrMoab said:
Yes, something can be done.

Make it a law that every single household in the USA is armed and the house owners are trained to use their weapons.

Get these stupid states like Jersey, Mass, California and others to easy CCW restrictions and make it easier for the common citizen to be armed.

Don't you think it is kind of odd that the areas where it is hardest to get guns are the areas with the highest gun crime?

If you were a criminal and you wanted to rob someone would you rather rob someone in a town where there was a good chance that who you were robbing might shoot back or a town where you know the honest Joe isn't going to have a weapon where they are illegal.
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This I can completely with!
 
CrankyYankee said:
Care to elaborate???.........BTW, I dig your sig.:thumbup:
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The whole subject is retarded.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is on Gun control no one is going to change any minds. Its like the Religion thread or an abortion thread.
 
I don't see a problem with concealed carry if someone is proficient with their firearm. I think open carry would draw too much attention.

If you live in a dangerous area or carry lots of money on a regular basis, i can see why you'd need one. IMO, the average person has no need to (aside from what many NRA people will say that someone could whip out a gun and shoot you at any moment).
 
DrMoab said:
The whole subject is retarded.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is on Gun control no one is going to change any minds. Its like the Religion thread or an abortion thread.
Click to expand...

That's just it, I am trying to find out for myself. To think that I will get anything out of this might be retarded, but we'll see.

I know control sounds dumb as soon as it is sugested. You said that if all teachers were armed there would be no school shootings. But bank guards are armed and banks still get robed. The bad guys just know they have to take out the guard first.

One side want to ban all guns, and the other side want to arm everyone. Both are unrealistic. I'm sitting in the middle, curious.
 
Powerman said:
That's just it, I am trying to find out for myself. To think that I will get anything out of this might be retarded, but we'll see.

I know control sounds dumb as soon as it is sugested. You said that if all teachers were armed there would be no school shootings. But bank guards are armed and banks still get robed. The bad guys just know they have to take out the guard first.

One side want to ban all guns, and the other side want to arm everyone. Both are unrealistic. I'm sitting in the middle, curious.
Click to expand...

So read. Do some research. Start with a guy at the University of Chicago named Lott if you want some interesting stats. Next look crime rates and social conditions of South Florida in the mid-80's and again in the mid-90's. Huge difference with only one change- widespread concealed weapon use.

I really don't think you'll get anything substatial from a stupid message board. Good hell, google the TV show Bullsh!t and watch their gun control episode. Lots of interesting factoids there mixed with everything else.

Gun control is more about control than guns, don't forget that for a minute.
 
SCW said:
Gun control is more about control than guns, don't forget that for a minute.
Click to expand...

That sounds legit, I could see that.

I was on a gun forum just surfing for info one day. I was shocked at how many "liberals" were there. It is hard to trust anything out there. Most info is about supporting an opinion. I kind of know what this site is like so I just thought I would ask. Thanks
 
Powerman said:
That sounds legit, I could see that.

I was on a gun forum just surfing for info one day. I was shocked at how many "liberals" were there. It is hard to trust anything out there. Most info is about supporting an opinion. I kind of know what this site is like so I just thought I would ask. Thanks
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as a liberal...
 
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