Tube Rockers Question: Beef vs Weight

Howdy all. I have historically spent more time over on Cherokee Forum, but I've been getting bored of the same "what size tires for a 3" lift" questions, so I've been spending more time around here. Seems to be some more tech and experience on these boards.

Got a question to propose. I'm hoping some people who have been down this road will weigh in.

Tube rockers: How much beef is too much beef?

Seems that most people run 2"x 6"x.188". Some do 2x4, some do 2x5, some do 2x8. Some do .125" wall, some do .250" wall. Some use 3 braces, some use 5 braces. Some add a rub rail, some skin with plate/UHMW.

3/16" 2x6 with five 2"x2"x.125" braces weighs in at 65-70 lb per side. Add a 1.75"x.120" DOM rub rail and a 1/2" plate of UHMW backed with .063" steel and its up to about 100 lb per side. Drop to 1/8" wall 2x5 and its 80 lb per side.

• In your experience, what combination of these options works best for what you use your Jeep for (please put yourself on a spectrum from mall crawler to rock bouncer)?
  
  
• Is there anything you would do differently about your current slider setup?

I use my Jeep for a bit of everything. 6" lift on 35's. Have done a couple overlanding-style trips (with intentions for more), and have been getting much more active with my local club. Have done more trail riding than wheelin, but have been itching to get into some more technical terrain. It's not a DD, but sees a good amount of road miles.

I'm currently in the process of doing tube rockers/sliders/mini-boat sides. I have the rocker cut out up to the door sill, and will be trimming the bottom of my doors to match. My intentions are to run the tube from wheel well to wheel well with 4 or 5 braces back to the plated unibody rail. At this point I'm unsure if I will leave it like that or add a DOM rub rail and/or skin over the braces.

I'm getting my cut-list together to place a material order within the next week. I'm leaning towards going 3/16" 2x6 for peace of mind, even though its heavier and more expensive. That would also set me up well to run the rockers as-is (no rub rail or skin) for awhile until I can come back to the project to add the accessories.

I'm anticipating most people will say 2x6x.188 and don't look back, but I'd appreciate any thoughts. Other things on my mind about the size selection is ease of tying in an A pillar support and tube fenders. I always love a good opportunity to over-think things.

92 with 4.5 inches on 31s here. Only minimal body modifications - cut-and-fold rear quarters, and front fenders trimmed to a 97+ style line to allow the bumper I bought to fit (a pre-Crusader JCR Stage 4 with side protectors).

I've got 2x6 .250 wall for rockers, put on by a friend because I don't weld; I've come down on them pretty hard a number of time (just ask some of the NAC guys), and they've not bent or moved. The inside of the tube was placed against the stock pinch seam, which has them sticking out not much more than an inch from the (unmodified) doors. To be honest, I think from 20 feet back an average person might not even realize my rockers aren't stock sheet metal - they really look believable as stock body lines.

I have to say I don't think how mine are configured would allow for tying in tube fenders (or an exocage, for that matter) without getting fairly creative, and I certainly don't have enough protrusion to use them as a step for getting to the roof with the doors closed, both of which might be an argument for 2x8 (plus, if you plan to lean into them for pivoting, it'd keep the doors a little further away from the rocks if you care about that sort of thing).

The friend who did mine basically replicated what he made for himself, which included heavier endcaps to made them air tanks. I think the wall thickness was dictated by the "double as tanks" choice, but he bashed on his own a lot harder than I have mine and his never moved either.

While I admit I'm not "hardcore", I've laid the truck down on them pretty hard a few times over the years and they've not budged or bent as far as I can tell. To be honest I don't feel like it's made the truck feel noticeably heavier at all and the extra stiffness it gives the unibody is a major plus.

With your rig already on 35s you're already toting around far more mass in one tire than even the .250 wall would be anyway. "More technical" on 35s to me implies you could hitting these really hard here and there (whether intentional or otherwise), so I'd say skimping on the wall thickness is not worthwhile and recommend you go for the .250 wall - the stronger those are, the less likely a nasty hit will screw up something and mess up how your doors work.

YMMV,


Rob

Thanks for the thorough response Rob. Its really nice to have some thoughtful discussion.

So yours are just tied into the pinch seam/rocker area, but not braced back to the unibody rails? My thoughts are it doesn't help much to have extremely robust rockers if they are not well braced to the rest of the structure. With these flimsy unibodies, it seems spreading the load is the name of the game. I can definitely see how your rockers are strong enough to take a beating, seeing as it now spreads the load across the entirety of the rocker plus the A, B, and C pillars.

Where I intend to butt my tube against should net me an extra 1" of stick-out compared to where yours are. I intend to spend Sunday in the garage starring at the current setup and taking some measurements/eyeballing some sizes of where I want the tube to come out to. I think 2x8" looks goofy, and 8" is a large gap to span without any support. That's why I'm leaning more towards the 2x5/2x6 with a rub rail. I'm going to need to pay close attention to where I can sneak tube fenders into. I'm all for getting creative with it. I don't want the tube fender to come straight down parallel to the body line, but instead angle down/in towards the body.

I don't think I'm gonna go .250. My decision is more between .125" and .188", with .188" being the likely choice. At the end of the day, I highly doubt I'd notice a 30-40 lb difference. The only reason I suspect .125" would be okay is if a rub rail and UHMW sheet were in place to take the majority of most of the hits vs directly on the rocker itself.

This is what happens when I have more time to think about projects than actually work on them lol.

I just did this last year... https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1157794

Really happy with the way they turned out. I've since added UHMW "mini boatsides" and a tube rub rail/kicker.

2x6x.188 will be plenty strong :thumbup:

This ^, you don't need more than .188" !

sdspearo said:

I just did this last year... https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1157794

Really happy with the way they turned out. I've since added UHMW "mini boatsides" and a tube rub rail/kicker.

2x6x.188 will be plenty strong :thumbup:

Click to expand...

Looks great! Looking at where those come out to, 2x6 looks appropriate vs 2x5. I like the body lines. I’ve read that thread several times already, but this read through pulled out some information that I was looking for. Quoted below from that thread:

sdspearo said:

got the outriggers cut to size and fitted, 4 per side. Went with 1.5" box, 1/4" wall since they'll be catching rocks. Was originally planning to plate the bottom, but between the 2x6x3/16 sliders, 2" angle, and outriggers this whole thing already weighs too much.

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I’m going to learn from you on this as you did 1/4” wall outriggers to hold up to rocks, but then went on the plate them anyway. I’m going to stick with 1/8” for the outriggers.

Rapid fire questions:

-what thickness UHMW did you use and did you back it with anything?

-what thickness did you use for the rub rail? How’s it holding up?

-still think .188 is necessary on the 2x6 with the UHMW plate and rub rail?

-did the spacing work well on your 4 outriggers to have your cage B pillar land on one of them?

RCP Phx said:

This ^, you don't need more than .188" !

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This is great feedback guys. Thank you!

I see you plated the outriggers with aluminum and states they’ve held up for many many years. What thickness did you use?

I went 2x8 ive been running with some guys on knarely trails. Places they are getting rocks in theyre doors with 2x6 and 4 im sliding over without a care on the world.

My rig is about 2.5-3" lift how brew 3link front arms are 32"ish long both lower and upper. Basically built like stinky fab.

4.88 gears grizzly front welded rear with less than half the lift as most the other rigs this squatty little thing is clawing and sliding its way right along mostly due to the sliders.

The 2x8 is 3/16 wall. I do not know if 3/16 is enough as im getting some pretty knarely denting and deep gashing. I may end up plating with 1/4".

A couple inches more lift will help rock contact. But I want flat control arms. And steering so ill likely never lift it more than an inch over current set up.

33s are the smallest tires id ever run. Stay lifted as minimal as possible. Any good steering/ track, sliders ,rock protection, recovery equipment, lockers minimal of 4.10 gears.
Go anywhere

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XJlimitedx99 said:

I see you plated the outriggers with aluminum and states they’ve held up for many many years. What thickness did you use?

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They are only 1/8" but I installed them back in '03 so they have definitely held up!

UHMW ? What is that?

Black1990jeep said:

UHMW ? What is that?

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It's a plastic material but I never saw it mentioned in the post/thread/

That delving skid stuff?

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Evan03 said:

I went 2x8...

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I do really like your setup, as well as your method of "just high enough" with the armor to handle the hits. Looks very capable.

RCP Phx said:

They are only 1/8" but I installed them back in '03 so they have definitely held up!

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That's impressive, I like that! I wish our vehicles lasted for 18 years out here lol.

Black1990jeep said:

UHMW ? What is that?

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UHMW stands for "Ultra High Molecular Weight" which is a specific type of polyethylene plastic (UHMW-PE). Its well known for its abrasion resistance and is popularly used in applications where there is frequent sliding over it. Its soft, so has high potential to get gouged out, but will not crack/break and has a low coefficient of friction to help slide over things. A 24"x48"x0.5" sheet costs $140 on McMaster. I'm sure it could be found cheaper elsewhere.

I think they usd it on snowmobile stuff maybe Hifax

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XJlimitedx99 said:

Rapid fire questions:

-what thickness UHMW did you use and did you back it with anything?

-what thickness did you use for the rub rail? How’s it holding up?

-still think .188 is necessary on the 2x6 with the UHMW plate and rub rail?

-did the spacing work well on your 4 outriggers to have your cage B pillar land on one of them?

Click to expand...

I went with .5" thk UHMW and added supports under the long spans (near the bottom and center). Grainger had best price when I bought. It has a high COE so make sure you account for thermal expansion in your mtg holes.

Rub rails are 1.75 dia x .188. Pretty sure about the .188 but I forget, def not .125. They're holding up fine and glad I added them. And, fwiw, the bends were done on the cheap HF pipe kinker.

Depends how you wheel, but I personally wouldn't go thinner than .188 on the 2x6. If I had a mostly overland rig then maybe .125 with the UHMW skids and rub rails.

B pillar cage tie-in doesn't exactly line up with an outrigger. I think ended up adding a support plate under the cage tie-in and welding it in.

Here's a couple more pics...

Ok, skid material, that makes sense, UHMW ....Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic. Thanks!


I have been thinking about adding tube rockers, I like the 8 inch wide idea, good door protection, and a nice step to access the rack. I am thinking 1/4 inch, yeah it does add more weight, But I reason it is low down weight, kind of counter balancing my roof rack gear. I hate being top heavy on off angle grades.

Nice red XJ! Thanks for the photo of the UHMW skid you have mounted. Is the UHMW skid metal backed? Where do you get it? What is the name brand? (UHMW is a whole class of plastics,so I am not sure what to get).

Uhmw is it's own material but comes in a lot of shapes.
https://www.mcmaster.com/plastics

I did the rockers on my last XJ with .188 wall 2x4.


I used .125 wall 2x4 for my current XJ


The silver XJ had an RE 3.5 inch lift, the maroon jeep has OME 2.5" lift. The jeep gets used for overlanding and hunting but the most likely thing to contact the rockers is the high-lift jack.



I'd like to see pictures of all the mangled .125-wall rockers. I have not regretted cutting back at all.

XJlimitedx99 said:

Thanks for the thorough response Rob. Its really nice to have some thoughtful discussion.

So yours are just tied into the pinch seam/rocker area, but not braced back to the unibody rails? My thoughts are it doesn't help much to have extremely robust rockers if they are not well braced to the rest of the structure. With these flimsy unibodies, it seems spreading the load is the name of the game. I can definitely see how your rockers are strong enough to take a beating, seeing as it now spreads the load across the entirety of the rocker plus the A, B, and C pillars.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I neglected that detail - yes, I have braces (1x1 tube) in two places - one right below the A pillar, the other back by the C pillar. Fully welded along the pinch seam and to the "sill" under the doors to create a near-OEM look.

I made my own 2x6 rock sliders by welding (2) 2x3x.120 square tubing. This keeps the sliders light weight, but gives a .250 center wall down the length.