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  #1  
Old November 30th, 2018, 09:12
Black1990jeep Black1990jeep is offline
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Solid Aluminum TieRods

I am wondering about the pros and cons of the solid aluminum tierods for the XJ. I have the Currie tierod now, bigger tierod ends, and heavy duty steel rod.

I see this sold...

https://savvyoffroad.com/product/utr-tja/

and I have seen some impressive demonstration videos of the aluminum rods bend but bounce back into shape, unlike the steel tierods, which are permanently deformed.

My steel Currie tie rod recently got bent on a rock, so I need a replacement.

My concern is if the tierod is so strong, if it is hit, it may allow damage to happen on the next weakest link, maybe the steering gear or knuckle? In fact the seller of these rods warns about this possibility? Then again the aluminum does still deflect so maybe this is no concern. I kind of see a bent tierod as a fuse, protecting the rest of the steering from damage, and at least a bent tie rod can be dealt with if not too badly bent, I got home over 100s of miles by simply adjusting the tierod ends to be longer to compensate for the bent rod.

So what is the verdict on solid aluminum rod? Worth it, or not? Pros, Cons?

thanks for advice, I am brand new to this wheeling stuff!
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  #2  
Old November 30th, 2018, 09:23
Heavyopp Heavyopp is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Try and get in touch with Dallas at Stinky Fab -- hopefully he'll be here comment...
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  #3  
Old November 30th, 2018, 10:42
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DutchVDub DutchVDub is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

If it bends and then returns to shape it’s absorbing the impact, so it’s not going to transfer any more force to other components than one made from steel tube.
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  #4  
Old November 30th, 2018, 12:29
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Weasel Weasel is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

I'm not a fan but Stinky Fab has good luck with them. I put the Poly Kit on mine, can't see anything bending with 4340 HT tube.

Not impressed with the Currie setup and would run either over their's. Mostly their tie-rod ends that they only sell, don't know if that is the same on their current kits but the one I dealt with was.
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  #5  
Old November 30th, 2018, 17:18
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ftwelder ftwelder is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

strength between a 7075 bar and 4130 bar/tube has a lot to do with length of the span, diameter of part and the way a load is applied. In my opinion, 7075 is great for loads applied to the ends so like a tie rod that is short and/or won't get hit. It's super stiff but it;s elasticity is low and won't return to original shape if hit hard.



4130 alloy bar is great if you are going to be deflecting the bar by hitting it on rocks between the ends. My tie rod is 1.25 4130 condition N (normalized, not hard or soft) and contacts the diff cover at full stop by a lot. No problem but if I was hitting whoops at 100K/hr the lack of stiffness would be evident but it's perfect for my application. 4130 H would be more like a spring and super hard to damage but more expensive with post process hardening. 4340 machined and heattreated would be extremely tough.
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Old November 30th, 2018, 23:44
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Weasel Weasel is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Not quite. Aluminum is 1/3 the stiffness of steel in any form. Stiffness and elasticity are the same property. Maybe you are thinking about the difference in deflection for a given load.

Mine doesn't hit the diff cover that I have noticed anyways.
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  #7  
Old December 1st, 2018, 13:50
Black1990jeep Black1990jeep is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

https://youtu.be/gTmzdaRxbCg

this above link shows a pretty impressive of steel verses aluminum tierods.
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  #8  
Old December 1st, 2018, 15:57
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ftwelder ftwelder is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel View Post
Not quite. Aluminum is 1/3 the stiffness of steel in any form. Stiffness and elasticity are the same property. Maybe you are thinking about the difference in deflection for a given load.

Mine doesn't hit the diff cover that I have noticed anyways.

I was thinking about different diameter bars, the length used and if it's just a "push/pull" load or getting hit in the middle. It seems like if one had had hydro steering and rods were protected that large diameter aluminum would be good. If you have a full length tie rod heattreated alloy steel may be a good choice.



It seems like stiffness would be resistance to bend, elasticity would be ability to return to original shape. It's a crazy world!
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  #9  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 16:20
JeepNoob JeepNoob is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Seems like border-line marketeering wank to me... I can't find any reason to replace your bent tie rod with these other than strength (These are so strong, care must be taken not to destroy other suspension components.)

They advertise this as being 7075 aluminum without specifying the temper... Regular untempered 7075 aluminum has a max tensile strength of 40,000 PSI tops and a yield strength of 21,000 PSI tops. So let's assume they're using the fairly common 7075-T6 then. That has a tensile strength of 74,000-78,000 PSI and a yield strength of 63,000-69,000 PSI. 7075-T651 is even better at 83,000 and 73,000 PSI.

Unfortunately, Currie engages in the same markeetering wank practices. The only thing I can find about what they make their tie rods out is "forged chrome alloy steel" or some such nonsense. So let's just assume it's some sort of chromoly steel. Even crappy 8620 chrome-nickel-moly steel has a tensile strength of 97,000 PSI (albiet with a yield strength of only 57,000 PSI) and that's on the low-end for chromoly steel. This disparity between yield and tensile strength can sometimes be a good thing though. (and something else I see going against this aluminum unit.) With a ferrous bolt going into a ferrous part, the bolt will start to stretch before anything gets TOO broken. Whereas, with a ferrous bolt threading into an aluminum part, there's not a lot of lee-way between "good and tight" and "stripped and f***ered." I'm not even going to get into the strengths for these two units based on size, since they both (thankfully) advertise them as being 1.25" in diameter and completely solid.

Sources, because science- https://www.onlinemetals.com/product...steelguide.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7075_aluminium_alloy
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  #10  
Old December 3rd, 2018, 11:24
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freerider15 freerider15 is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel View Post
Not quite. Aluminum is 1/3 the stiffness of steel in any form. Stiffness and elasticity are the same property. Maybe you are thinking about the difference in deflection for a given load.

Mine doesn't hit the diff cover that I have noticed anyways.
Close, but noooot quite. There are a LOT of alloys of aluminum, so saying in any form is pretty vague.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepNoob View Post
Seems like border-line marketeering wank to me... I can't find any reason to replace your bent tie rod with these other than strength (These are so strong, care must be taken not to destroy other suspension components.)

They advertise this as being 7075 aluminum without specifying the temper... Regular untempered 7075 aluminum has a max tensile strength of 40,000 PSI tops and a yield strength of 21,000 PSI tops. So let's assume they're using the fairly common 7075-T6 then. That has a tensile strength of 74,000-78,000 PSI and a yield strength of 63,000-69,000 PSI. 7075-T651 is even better at 83,000 and 73,000 PSI.

Unfortunately, Currie engages in the same markeetering wank practices. The only thing I can find about what they make their tie rods out is "forged chrome alloy steel" or some such nonsense. So let's just assume it's some sort of chromoly steel. Even crappy 8620 chrome-nickel-moly steel has a tensile strength of 97,000 PSI (albiet with a yield strength of only 57,000 PSI) and that's on the low-end for chromoly steel. This disparity between yield and tensile strength can sometimes be a good thing though. (and something else I see going against this aluminum unit.) With a ferrous bolt going into a ferrous part, the bolt will start to stretch before anything gets TOO broken. Whereas, with a ferrous bolt threading into an aluminum part, there's not a lot of lee-way between "good and tight" and "stripped and f***ered." I'm not even going to get into the strengths for these two units based on size, since they both (thankfully) advertise them as being 1.25" in diameter and completely solid.

Sources, because science- https://www.onlinemetals.com/product...steelguide.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7075_aluminium_alloy
I always assume 7075-T6.

There's a bit of materials science left out, and many "assumptions" made.

There's a reason you see many of the U4 crowd and top comp-crawling rigs running AL. if they're not running AL, they're typically running a chromoly alloy of some sort.

I see many people post "engineering" numbers they find online, with little knowledge about what they really mean, and how they contribute to failure, fatigue, etc.

Most don't really know the difference between tensile strength, yield strength, "Ultimate" strength (aka Engineering Strength), elastic and plastic regions of deformation, etc...and which of those properties really matter in relation to the loads we are, and aren't, putting on a link member.
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  #11  
Old December 4th, 2018, 08:27
Black1990jeep Black1990jeep is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by freerider15 View Post
Close, but noooot quite. There are a LOT of alloys of aluminum, so saying in any form is pretty vague.



I always assume 7075-T6.

There's a bit of materials science left out, and many "assumptions" made.

There's a reason you see many of the U4 crowd and top comp-crawling rigs running AL. if they're not running AL, they're typically running a chromoly alloy of some sort.

I see many people post "engineering" numbers they find online, with little knowledge about what they really mean, and how they contribute to failure, fatigue, etc.

Most don't really know the difference between tensile strength, yield strength, "Ultimate" strength (aka Engineering Strength), elastic and plastic regions of deformation, etc...and which of those properties really matter in relation to the loads we are, and aren't, putting on a link member.
What i see in the videos is aluminum rods that elastically deform under the same load that plastically deforms a steel rod. I figure this is a good thing. If you bonk the rod be it aluminum or steel, it yields, but with the aluminum the yielding is elastic, so the rod bounces back when the load is removed. I would think this will still offer protection of the other parts as the aluminum rod still gives under load, But since it bounces back, the rod wont be ruined.

Has anyone know of damage caused by use of an aluminum rod? downsides from experience?

thanks!
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Old December 4th, 2018, 09:42
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freerider15 freerider15 is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1990jeep View Post
What i see in the videos is aluminum rods that elastically deform under the same load that plastically deforms a steel rod. I figure this is a good thing. If you bonk the rod be it aluminum or steel, it yields, but with the aluminum the yielding is elastic, so the rod bounces back when the load is removed. I would think this will still offer protection of the other parts as the aluminum rod still gives under load, But since it bounces back, the rod wont be ruined.

Has anyone know of damage caused by use of an aluminum rod? downsides from experience?

thanks!
Correct, an aluminum rod is able to absorb more strain energy (and thus deflect further and not reach the plastic deformation region), "better" than general DOM/4130.

However, not all are made equal...Teraflex's AL tie rod is great at bending, and not bending back.
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Old December 4th, 2018, 10:18
Black1990jeep Black1990jeep is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by freerider15 View Post
Correct, an aluminum rod is able to absorb more strain energy (and thus deflect further and not reach the plastic deformation region), "better" than general DOM/4130.

However, not all are made equal...Teraflex's AL tie rod is great at bending, and not bending back.
Is the Teraflex rod a different alloy or heat treatment to cause it to not bend back?

Do you know of a brand or alloy/heat treatment that works best?

I know not all aluminum is the same, but dont know which aluminum sold as XJ tierods perform the best. I am heavily leaning towards the aluminum rod right now, but want to make sure what I get is made with the best aluminum material so I get the benefits of more damage resistance.

My goal is a more damage resistant rod. My research finds that raising the tie rod is the best solution, but that is beyond my money and time constraint right now, and my current heavy duty Currie Correctlync rod needs replacement. Thus the new rod must fit my existing system.

thanks for advice!
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Old December 4th, 2018, 13:46
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freerider15 freerider15 is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1990jeep View Post
Is the Teraflex rod a different alloy or heat treatment to cause it to not bend back?

Do you know of a brand or alloy/heat treatment that works best?

I know not all aluminum is the same, but dont know which aluminum sold as XJ tierods perform the best. I am heavily leaning towards the aluminum rod right now, but want to make sure what I get is made with the best aluminum material so I get the benefits of more damage resistance.

My goal is a more damage resistant rod. My research finds that raising the tie rod is the best solution, but that is beyond my money and time constraint right now, and my current heavy duty Currie Correctlync rod needs replacement. Thus the new rod must fit my existing system.

thanks for advice!
IIRC the Teralflex bars aren't solid AL with drilled/tapped ends. Being hollow takes a bit away. I'm also not sure the alloy type they were using off the top of my head.

A 7075-T6 tie rod, should be more than plenty for most, just as a 1.5" x .25" DOM tie rod would.
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Old December 4th, 2018, 14:51
92xjRJ 92xjRJ is offline
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Re: Solid Aluminum TieRods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black1990jeep View Post
Is the Teraflex rod a different alloy or heat treatment to cause it to not bend back?

Do you know of a brand or alloy/heat treatment that works best?

I know not all aluminum is the same, but dont know which aluminum sold as XJ tierods perform the best. I am heavily leaning towards the aluminum rod right now, but want to make sure what I get is made with the best aluminum material so I get the benefits of more damage resistance.

My goal is a more damage resistant rod. My research finds that raising the tie rod is the best solution, but that is beyond my money and time constraint right now, and my current heavy duty Currie Correctlync rod needs replacement. Thus the new rod must fit my existing system.

thanks for advice!
Look at stinkyfab racing, they have a steering system that uses aluminum rods, they seem to have great luck and a few videos of the system being tested. and they will be the system I end up running when I get to that part of my build
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