engine swap wont fit.. but can I???????

Trying to make the square peg fit in the round hole. The engine fits length and width wise. The issue I am looking at is that this engine is a front sump and the oil pump sits to low in the pan to modify. I am unable to relocate or modify the oil pan. What I have in front of me is a factory 1988 Cherokee with the 4.0 and AW4. My AW4 just went out but the 4.0 seems to still be running very good. I have been wanting to do this diesel swap for some time now. Since the transmission crapped out on me I thought about using the diesel in the XJ. Only issue I have is that the front sump makes the engine about 28 inches from top to bottom. Thats to tall for the XJ. And I do not know if a liftkit is going to make a difference. I think the engine might just be to dam tall. I cant move the engine any further back, and moving it forward wont make a difference either. So now I am fishing for ideas on trying to see if there is anyway I can make this work without feeding a ton of money into it.

Anyone?

what engine are you putting in?

I know some of the Toyota guys swapping different motors with a front sump (celica? supra?) can turn the pan and sump 180 degrees and it all work out.

Cut a hole in the hood and let it stick out the top



What motor are you trying to put in?

AARON

I thought about the hole in the hood... but that would be one hellllll of a hood scoop...

i have a mercedes diesel engine. runs great and gets good mileage. also did great on the last smog test. its not a race winner but im not doing the swap to win stop light races. ive been driving the benz deisel for some time now and enjoy it. it weighs more then my XJ. nice thing is the diffs have almost the same ratios. Im still a jeep newbie but I believe my XJ has 3.55 gears? and the benz has 3.56 gears so thats on the ball. 28-30mpg is nice. and i intend on making biodiesel in the near future so will be making most of my own fuel.

the thing with this series of mercedes diesel is you cant modify the oil pans. the oil pump sits almost all the way down into the lower sump and the pickup tube isnt that long to begin with. so i am stuck with the way it is. If I am able to make this work I already know I am going to have to compromise on the hood scoop. I just dont want it to look like something off the drag strip.

MountainGoat said:

I thought about the hole in the hood... but that would be one hellllll of a hood scoop...

i have a mercedes diesel engine. runs great and gets good mileage. also did great on the last smog test. its not a race winner but im not doing the swap to win stop light races. ive been driving the benz deisel for some time now and enjoy it. it weighs more then my XJ. nice thing is the diffs have almost the same ratios. Im still a jeep newbie but I believe my XJ has 3.55 gears? and the benz has 3.56 gears so thats on the ball. 28-30mpg is nice. and i intend on making biodiesel in the near future so will be making most of my own fuel.

the thing with this series of mercedes diesel is you cant modify the oil pans. the oil pump sits almost all the way down into the lower sump and the pickup tube isnt that long to begin with. so i am stuck with the way it is. If I am able to make this work I already know I am going to have to compromise on the hood scoop. I just dont want it to look like something off the drag strip.

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Interesting, what trans/t-case are you hooking this to? Is this a 300 series turbo diesel?

Is a gas to diesel swap smog legal in WA or OR, or wherever the hell you are? In CA it's nearly impossible.

Don't say you are stuck with the pickup where it is. I'm betting it's attached to a tube, which means the tube can be bent/extended and rewelded. Same goes for the pan. If it's a steel pan, it's really no trouble to cut the mating surface off, turn the pan around, and reweld it.

You do own a welder, right? You shouldn't even think about swapping exotic parts around in the driveline without a welder......

CRASH

What about going to a dry sump system? May not be the cheapest but is may be doable.

I've long thought about a swap like you are doing and I figured a Merc Diesel would be the way to go. It's always been a thought though and I've never done any real research. I'd be very interested with the details if you get it to work. I'd love to get 30mpg from a Jeep.

B-loose

The oil pump minus the pickup tube is dang near touching the lower sump. And its a two part oil pan. This one is the last year of the 240D. Not high power by any means at 75hp. One of my buddies has been expermenting with a turbo kit. But if this does work out I will later be going to the 300TD which is basically the same engine with an extra cylinder and able to get 200hp.

My neighbor is a pro-welder and he does a lot of my mods that need welding.

I wish the sump pump was an option. But for the cost I could just buy a Volkswagen 1.9 TDI and stick it in with zero clearance issues and have a heck of a lot more power, more efficiency, and way better fuel economy.
I know this engine would work well with the XJ. We own a TDI and the car isnt exactly lite weight. Our best mileage was 64mpg and our worst is 39mpg and we average around 45mpg mixed. This car weighs the same as my XJ.

I live in Idaho now. It is 100% legal. Only thing is it must pass smog for that year of diesel. The limit is 45% and I just had this engine smogged and it passed with flying colors at 7%. My TDI came in at 0.1%.

This is just an experment stage deisel conversion. I have a few friends that have already performed this conversion with the 200 series MBZ diesel and the mileage is very good. I expect as low as 20-22mpg city and 28-32mpg highway and mid twenties with mixed driving. Right now we have been getting about 17mpg with the 4.0 with mixed driving.

The thing about the mercedes diesels are they have been making them for decades. Longer then any other maker. Mercedes has a lot of firsts in the market... like the first 4x4 with a transfercase in 1903 and the first 4x4 with all wheel steering that same year. These were production vehicles. R. Diesel developed the diesel engine and MBZ started making them. The 200 series weighs about 450 pounds. Im not sure what the 4.0 weighs in at. The benz transmission is the same length as the AW4 and has one helll of a first gear and reverse. I can later adapter the 231 tcase. Right now its trying to overcome the height of the engine in the front. thats the only obstacle I have.

Not sure about the applicability to the Mercedes diesel, but the Cummins 4BT diesel is "tilted" about 10 degrees off vertical to lower the overall installed height of the engine.

Wow that is really low HP. I'm surprised to here you say the VW TDI would be a good swap though as I thought the motor was way to small and underpowered for the XJ. I also have a TDI that I like very much, so that would be another swap that would interest me. Is the 240D a 4cyl then? I always thought a LD 5 or 6cyl diesel from some European car would be the way to go for the XJ. Keep us posted of what you come up with.

B-loose

Yes the 240D is a 4 banger. I drive one and they arent that bad. Or maybe Im just used to driving them and it doesnt bother me. Ive had high powered vehicles in the past. Ive raced 1/4 mile cars.... guess im getting old now and dont care about going fast.

I think when it comes to the VW 1.9TDI some folks still attached an underpowered stigma to VW diesels from the 1500 and 1600 series diesel engines. These engine were underpowered. The 1.9TDI dynos out at 90hp and 150ft-lbs at the wheels. A chip runs about 400 bucks installed and this brings you to 115-120hp and 190-210ft-lbs. If you use the 1.9TDI from an automatic you get the larger injection pump and smaller injectors... swap out the injectors and nozzles and now you pushing 130-150hp and 250-300ft-lbs and the engine still maintains reliability. VW races these engines and after they finish with them they break them down and mic them out... they show almost no wear. The engine is used in some pro-rockcrawling rigs and they just idle over things. Like I said before our vehicle with the 1.9TDI weighs the same as out XJ. My neighbor didnt even know it was a diesel until the following year. It flat out hauls ass when you need it to and still gets 45mpg.
VW has several other TDI engines but this has been the only one being shipped to North America. This year they brought in the 2.0TDI and 2005 brings the 5.0 V10 TDI. The same mods should get this monster an easy 45% increase in hp and torque. I wish I had the funds to do the 1.9TDI. I know it would be a good engine for the XJ.

But I have the 240D engine...

I dont think tilting the engine is going to make things better. I run into way more mods trying to compensate. There is a chance I might just strap the whole project for this rig and move it on to another that can handle the conversion.

MountainGoat said:

and i intend on making biodiesel in the near future so will be making most of my of my own fuel

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If you haven't already done this to another diesel, you'll love it. My shop is 95% Mercedes repair and service, I have all sorts of Mercedes engine cores and parts , if you run into anything you think will work and can't find the parts off a Mercedes shot me a pm and let me know. WE are running a 97 dodge diesel truck on used vegetable oil and a mercedes 240d on the same, not paying for fuel is the way to go, hope you can get it to work out...

Strok.... whats your take on the oil pump and lower oil pan?

MountainGoat said:

Strok.... whats your take on the oil pump and lower oil pan?

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is the concern the air filter housing sticking up throught the hood if you raise the motor? if it is....you could make an air filter housing of a california born 300d turbo, it uses an air box mounted at the front of the passengers fender behind the headlight(or make your own). I don't know of any cheap way to make a dry sump set up on that motor. With the main oil pan being aluminum I don't know how you could modify it with out some badass tig welding(which if you were on the east coast near NC I could get done), but then your running back into the money issue. You could possibly cut out the cross memeber and drop it down to sit the motor lower..other than that, I dunno. I would be happy to donate any parts that I could to your project just to see it done.

I'm excited by this thread... I was planning on eventually trying to use the '05 Liberty diesel & trans mated to the 242 T-case in my wife's '01 XJ Limited when I'm done with my other projects. I'd also like to convert my 2-stroke outboard powered fishing boat over to a diesel I/O, and then set up a small bio-diesel refinery in my garage to power the fleet. I'm so happy with my 6.5 turbodiesel Suburban (my first diesel) that I want to convert the rest of my collection! Please keep us posted on your XJ diesel conversion, there are many here who would like to learn from your experiences.

The problem I am having is that the combination of the front sump makes the engine about 28" tall in the front. Sitting the engine into the bay makes the lower oil pan touch the steering and axle... One way people might better be able to visualize this is by looking under their stock XJ's and notice the oil pan on the 4.0. That is where it is going to sit with this diesel engine, except it will be infront and not in the back. So you can now see where the oil pan is going to hit and carbon bond into the front axle and the steering. I wish I could move that lowerpan to the rear. I know folks cant see what this oil pan looks like but its a two piece oil pan with the upper being aluminum and the lower being steel.

What exactly is the oil pan hitting? I can 't think of what would be in the way except the trackbar or something like that?

MountainGoat said:

The problem I am having is that the combination of the front sump makes the engine about 28" tall in the front. Sitting the engine into the bay makes the lower oil pan touch the steering and axle... One way people might better be able to visualize this is by looking under their stock XJ's and notice the oil pan on the 4.0. That is where it is going to sit with this diesel engine, except it will be infront and not in the back. So you can now see where the oil pan is going to hit and carbon bond into the front axle and the steering. I wish I could move that lowerpan to the rear. I know folks cant see what this oil pan looks like but its a two piece oil pan with the upper being aluminum and the lower being steel.

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The guys that do a 5.0 in a Ranger have this problem. Most just install a body lift. But on the XJ that is not possiable. IMSC there is a mention in an AA catalog about not being able to put a Chevy 350 in unless it has at least 3" of lift. So..... it seams to me that the best solutio to this problem is one of three things. Lift the XJ! Incrfeasing the distance from the oil pan to the axle and steering. Shorten the oil pan! Cut the tube of the pickup and cut out a section of the pan. 1" will do wonders! Third that I see is move the axle forward a couple of inches! Moving the front forward would not be that difficult. longer arms and relocate the TB frame mount and adjust steering as needed. Oh wait what about doing firewall surgery and moving the engine back an inch or two? I think you mentioned some of these but I'd try it lifted.

To heck with the diesel switch....I want to know about this used veggie oil thing...and home brewed fuel????
BTW gas just hit $2.49 a gal for reg. here!!!
Just total your VW (back it into a large tree at say.....30 mph) and use your dub engine!
Rick

Jump This said:

To heck with the diesel switch....I want to know about this used veggie oil thing...and home brewed fuel????
BTW gas just hit $2.49 a gal for reg. here!!!
Just total your VW (back it into a large tree at say.....30 mph) and use your dub engine!
Rick

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we built all our own stuff , but if you want to buy the stuff and learn more about it, go to greasel.com

Right now the engine would be moved all the way back to the firewall. I would have to move it back another 6 inches to clear the front axle.

I am going to do some more measurements.

Strokedwoody.... I need your help with measuring the 240D. I need a measurement from center crankshaft to lower pan bottom and center crankshaft to front top of valve cover. The engine is still in the mercedes so I cant get an exact meaurement. Also I might have made a mistake on the actuall height of the front of that 240D engine... looks like it might actually be 27 inches rather then 28inches. But I still need to know where the center of the crankshaft sits. I am going to line this up with the center of the 4.0 crank as it sits in the XJ. This should get me in the ball park on how exactly this engine will sit if placed within the same location of the 4.0 and will tell me how to move the engine. One thing I do not want to get into it raising the transmission and the need to cut the floor and mod it. There are still going to be a couple issues with the lower oil pan even if I get it to clear... I have to notch the sides of the oil pan at least 1.5 inches to clear the diff and the upper arm because the width of the lower oil pan is about 11 inches. Stroke... How much of the lower oil pan can I cut off and still remain functional? Side to Side? Top to bottom?

There might be a chance this will work. I am also looking into modifying the valve cover to make it shorter. Going to hit up one of my mercedes friends and see what he might have to say...

also.. mercedes does have a sump pump kit..... a used one runs about 2500 dollars. For that money I can buy a 1.9TDI with cpu and harness and then drop in an Upsolute Chip, bigger injectors and nozzles an hit 150hp and 300ft-lbs.