NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association  

Go Back   NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association > NAXJA Unibody Jeep Technical Forums > Jeep Cherokee XJ (1984 - 2001) > Modified Tech Discussion
HOME Member FAQ Sponsor Info Rules Bylaws E-Mail

Modified Tech Discussion Forum for Tech related discussion for Modified XJ's and MJ's.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #511  
Old May 19th, 2020, 16:12
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boris0265 View Post
Wow I just spend 3 hours reading this entire thing. All because of a search on frame stiffeners and down the rabbit hole I went. Great work.
Thanks, enjoying the heck outta the rig.

Been working on setting up the new place but there has been a good amount of wheeling and exploring too. Mostly before all the COVID crap went down, but now starting up a bit again. Trying to give my daughters a love of adventure and exploration. It mostly seems to be working.

Big lava tube and big smiles.






Some of the remote beaches are pretty rad, the diversity of terrain still blows my mind.














I still prefer the rig without flares, but Iím getting a bit more use to it with.

Oh and the workshop is coming along well. Even scored a lift off a local mechanic who was closing.




The shop needed better lights in a big way so I spun wire nuts till I had blisters.




Lots of projects while we hunker down!
-Joel
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old May 19th, 2020, 17:38
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is online now
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 586
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

More info on the white car??


Good job pops! Love to see the kiddos having fun on the ride, good stuff man!



My littles have a bad habit of “go faster” in my big turbo subi and “we can climb it dad” in my trail rigs... worried about the day they get keys! Lmao


Good stuff brother
__________________
97í XJ lift lockers 35s mid arms 9"/hp30 trussed warn hubs wj brakes 1ton OTK 4.56s etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old May 19th, 2020, 17:51
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
More info on the white car??
It's a 1990 Mazda Rx7 with a 429ci LS2. Makes pretty close to 600 hp and runs 315s and 335s to go with the widebody.




I used to run SoCal track days with some regularity but here on the island it mostly sees windy roads and autocross.




I'm one of the owners of Ronin Speedworks--www.roninspeedworks.com-- and we specialize in engine swaps and such (which is how I pay for my car hobbies).




Anyways, there's a full build thread over here if you're curious: https://www.norotors.com/index.php?topic=1274.0

Thanks for the kind words. I hear ya on tossing the kids the keys. I've started letting them drive trails and do the steering while I work the pedals. Country living is rad.

-Joel
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old May 19th, 2020, 18:04
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is online now
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 586
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Nice!! Will def peep the build thread... looks like a fun car to drive! The wide body threw me off- I almost threw out rx7, but was seeing 240sx too... love it man!

Rx7s always hold a place in my heart... back in the PlayStation 3 days on gran tourismo 5, the rx7 was the best of class to modify... 3k hp o think you could get it up to! Lol


As with the Jeep, clean work and great attention to detail... I will pop some popcorn and settle in if that build is anything like this one
__________________
97í XJ lift lockers 35s mid arms 9"/hp30 trussed warn hubs wj brakes 1ton OTK 4.56s etc work in progress..
93zj BEAST 35s Claytons LAs 44/hp30 lockers bumpers headers etc $old
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old May 20th, 2020, 15:26
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I miss being out and about. Thereís just so much neat stuff to explore. This is probably a 2 miles stretch between nearby beaches and had dozens of shady spots perfect for fishing or picnicking.




















Definitely getting spoiled over water this blue. These pics are straight out of the cell phone from before the shutdowns. Hopefully a good reminder that thereís a big beautiful world out there.




I havenít touched the ocean in 3 months, but it looks like we might get to change that this week.

-Joel
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old May 21st, 2020, 12:18
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

First post COVID run happened last weekend. The shelter in place orders were reduced to social distancing so the Big Island Jeep club had a run up the Maunakea on R1. 17 rigs. JKs, JLs, a couple gladiators and 1 lonely XJ (oldest vehicle there by far). Guess who was pushing the crew to drive harder, move faster?




Yep, me and one friend ran ahead repeatedly. Every 20 minutes or so weíd stop and wait 10Ö On the one hand waiting sucked, on the other hand, itís easier to run fast in a small crew while having a bigger group behind us is comforting in case something broke that was more than 1 support vehicle could cover.




There must have been some newbies in the big pack because they were just kinda meandering. Clearly, Iíve gotten spoiled in the times Iíve run with . Still a good day.




By the way, thereís no drones allowed on Maunakea, so the club member who shot the wide view pic above had to climb the mountain opposite to get the shot. Not trivial at 11,000 ft.

Jeep ran mostly okay. I can tell itís down on power at altitude. The only real issue is that this is the second time recently Iíve managed to blow up my front upper shock bushings. Iíve done it twice now.




To be fair my last repair job used some converted motor mount pieces from a random application (not even XJ), but still, these blew after only a couple days on trail and youíd think motor mount bushings would be decent rubber.




Iíve also heard about folks failing the shock mount sheet metal so I may want to reinforce that during an upgrade. Anyways, it has me thinking about shocks. I know Iím hitting stuff pretty hard and I like running reasonably fast, so I want to do something better. I also decided Iím keeping the XJ long term. Even when my FJ40 Cruiser is done, Iíd rather have a loaner vehicle for when folks come visit or a backup if another vehicle is down. So that means Iím about ready to go a bit gnarlier on the suspension.

Iím short enough on time these days that, Iíd like to keep the custom fab to a minimum. Any have suggestion on factors to be thinking about for damping on a rig that crawls occasionally, yet sees quite a bit more fast trail riding these days? It seems folk are specing things stiffer for Jeepspeed.

Best resource Iíve found so far was the JeepSpeed suspension thread.
https://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25592

Itís long so I just wrote a summary of my takeaways with a bunch of questions as well.
https://naxja.org/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=270

If folks wouldnít mind giving that a read and then offering suggestions Iíd appreciate it. At a minimum, Iíd be looking at Bilstein 7100s, but Iím also debating getting out of the 2Ē shock class. Right now King smooth body 2.5s seem like a healthy step up without being total ridiculous. Problem is that the bodies lengths of the Kings (or Fox) are significantly longer for a given stroke.

An advantage of staying with the 2.0 class is that I might only need to replace my front shocks. My fronts are still the BDS originals (9 years old and cheap but I haven't killed them yet, the rears are Bilstein 5100s (10Ē stroke 255/70 valved) and only a few years old. Up front in a 2.0 class shock, I actually like the Bilstein 5165s more than the 7100s (prefer their reservoir mounting and hose orientation) but theyíd have to be revalved for the 275/78 damping that seems more popular up front.

From what I can tell 7100s short bodies are offered in 3 valvings: 255/70, 275/78, and 360/80. 5165s are a very similar form factor (just a touch longer body) but only offered 255/70 and 360/80.

Anyways, thoughts appreciated. I also need to figure out how much usuable travel difference Iíd see if I upgraded to 6Ē lift springs instead of the older 4.5 BDS springs plus 2Ē blocks I have now. Rates seems fine so Iíll stick in the 230 lb/in range.

-Joel
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 09:49
XJEEPER's Avatar
XJEEPER XJEEPER is offline
NAXJA Member # 13
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Wasatch Range
Posts: 9,079
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Joel, I've run 11.60" 5165's with 255/70 valving (25-175783) up front for 12yrs/120k miles and they are still performing well.
EB1 mounting top and bottom, with my own upper mount similar to JKS units, and have never had them loosen up.

My front axle mounts are tabs which I welded to the outboard side of the LCA mount.



I too like the reservoir on body mounting option, which keeps the package compact.

I went with these units on the recommendation from Joel@Bilstein and they can be rebuilt/revalved, with a modification to the remote rest.

I run 10" 5150's out back and these are still doing the job. I fabbed my own upper mounts to eliminate bar pins. https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthre...913774&page=13




Bilstein Shock Model chart: https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/...og2020_WEB.pdf
__________________
Speak the Truth-Question with Boldness
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 10:01
gunselman gunselman is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 46
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I'll be using these mounts when i swap my shocks out. It would probably benefit you.
https://tandjperformance.com/product/part-bp-s1005/
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 10:37
sjx40250's Avatar
sjx40250 sjx40250 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 1,164
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

The track bar only moves out of its resting plane based on the center of axis of the axle as it moves up and down. Not much, hence the rubber bushings. A double sheer advantage is not understood by me unless the stock configuration limits vertical travel, which the double sheer does not do. But the double sheer does impede the movement along the arc of the axle. for reference, here is a pic of mine. It is an IRO with their drop bracket of only about an inch or so. They also offer a flex joint that would mitigate the resistance through the arc.

P1030339, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 10:39
sjx40250's Avatar
sjx40250 sjx40250 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 1,164
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Oh, the drop bracket
P1030340, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #521  
Old May 22nd, 2020, 15:52
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJEEPER View Post
Joel, I've run 11.60" 5165's with 255/70 valving (25-175783) up front for 12yrs/120k miles and they are still performing well.
EB1 mounting top and bottom, with my own upper mount similar to JKS units, and have never had them loosen up.
...
Thanks for chiming in Jeff. I just reread your full thread the other day and I was guessing those might be 5165s. Needed to ping you but you treed me. The benefit of the mounting and hose configuration probably outweighs the need to re-valve and I can always try out the 255/70 and decide if I want more damping.

For anyone curious, here's the difference:

7100:


5165 (billet clamps shown add +$85 for a pair)


Generic shot of quite a few including the 5150s...




Unfortunately, I'm not seeing the 5150s in the catalog anymore so they may be discontinued. (https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/...og2020_WEB.pdf)

Too bad, as I like those. I'm wishing I would have found those before I did 5100s. The shortened body that comes with a remote reservoir seems like a big advantage. It look me quite a bit of work at the rear bump stop to be sure the shock wouldn't bottom out and I'm right on the hairy edge as is.




Unfortunately, if I ditch the rear bar pins now, that inch or so of travel I loose becomes a bigger deal and I'd be likely to bottom the shock unless I dial the bumps down further still. Since my modified BDS/bastard pack rear springs have sagged a touch, I already wish I had a bit more up travel than I do now.

Maybe I should sell all my current shocks and start fresh. That's part of what has me tempted by 2.5" class shocks but all the ones I've looked at are so much longer bodies for an equivalent travel that it's just about a deal breaker, particularly in back.

The cost ain't trivial either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunselman View Post
I'll be using these mounts when i swap my shocks out. It would probably benefit you.
https://tandjperformance.com/product/part-bp-s1005/
I like those. Seems like an on the JKS converstion bits for only a touch more cost. I've run across a few folks that complained of loosening with the JKS route and these look like they add some bonus support the tower too. If I do run 5165s mounting the reservoir lower on the body like Jeff did makes that easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjx40250 View Post
The track bar only moves out of its resting plane based on the center of axis of the axle as it moves up and down. Not much, hence the rubber bushings.
...
SJX...

When I blew up my front shock upper bushings, I was convinced I had something in control arms or steering loosening up. I actually pulled off the trail, broke out the tools and retorqued a bunch before I finally found the shock bushings were wasted. Turned out all the structural bits were okay (tightened a few but not a lot). The ticking I could in the floorboard in dead pedal area was in fact from the shock rather than what I thought might be an upper control arm bushing.

I'm running the SFR WJ high roller steering with heims at both ends of the trackbar so I should be good on degrees of freedom there. SFR has been decent but does have a couple issues. Let me pause on that one and write up some separate thoughts.

-Joel
Reply With Quote
  #522  
Old May 27th, 2020, 13:55
frijolee frijolee is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 377
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

Anyone have opinions about the inherent limitations of front shock stem mounts and rubber bushings? Blowing those up is what has me looking at shocks in the first place but there are quite a few 5160 (direct fit options) that I can dig through that have stem mounts if I my bushing just aged out.

The only 5160 Bilstein actually calls for an XJ front is this one intended for 4" lifts:
https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/...ep-Cherokee-XJ

However if you look at TJ options this uses the same end details with a longer stroke.
https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/...ep-Wrangler-TJ

For what it's worth, I'm browsing various Jeep models with hot links to shock warehouse from this source:
https://www.jeepcommander.com/thread...ailable.14695/

Regarding stem mount limitations... I've heard the shock tower can fail with stem mounts (another benefit of the TandJ top) but it was in discussion and I've never seen pictures of the failure. Supposedly something to do with sheet metal layers tearing welds and separating.
Reply With Quote
  #523  
Old May 28th, 2020, 15:50
Goose_XJ88's Avatar
Goose_XJ88 Goose_XJ88 is offline
NAXJA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,342
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I like my JKS Shock adapters and they allow me to orientate the top of the shock so that it pivots through the range of the shock travel vs binding up when they are mounted like the other kit suggested.
__________________
88 XJ Laredo 8" RE SA, drop brackets, 35s D30/44 4.56, AW4, 242, 7100s, Loganís ft winch bumper, JCR swing out tire carrier, JCR sliders, 96 booster, 97+ mirrors & console (FOR SALE)
99 XJ Limited, AW4, 242, Colombia Edition WJ Seats, Stock. Future 4.5" lift, TnT LA, 33s armor, 231 SYE, D30/44 4.56, rear locker, etc
93 XJ 2 Door AX-15 D30/8.25 3.55 swap, (SOLD)
92 MJ AW4 2wd, 97 mirrors. Future 4wd swap, 242, MJ 44, Eliminator Roll bar, Bucket seats, 97+ console
Reply With Quote
  #524  
Old May 29th, 2020, 05:37
whitexj98 whitexj98 is offline
NAXJA Forum User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fraser, MI
Posts: 2,186
Re: Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

I installed the the "TJ" 25-187809, Bilstein would not tell me the valving but said they would be "firmer" then the XJ specific 5100s (24-185943) I had.

I have only had them out once (go fast/ sand trails ) and they seemed to do well, of course the JKS bumps made it very nice to go fast.

I also put 5165ss on the rear, 25-177510, unfortunately I got a bad one and it leaked immediately after the first go fast section from the reservoir fitting, bango bolt was loose. Wheeled the whole day with it pretty much discharged. Was a little disappointed with Bilstein, I was outside the 90 day warranty, yet first time actuality using them due to having the jeep in the garage doing a JK 44 swap. They didn't care and wouldn't accept it as a manufacturer defect, luckily 4wheel parts accepted it as a warranty return and I'm waiting on a new one.

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Box o' rocks ParadiseXJ OEM Tech Discussion 4 November 6th, 2007 07:48
Moon Rocks Funny Rocks hards91xj NorthWest Chapter 5 February 13th, 2005 12:22
Mobil Multipurpose ATF gw204 OEM Tech Discussion 5 December 16th, 2004 08:17


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
NAXJA and NAXJA logo's Copyright NAXJA. All content/images Copyright NAXJA 1999-2014