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Progressive Clutch Problem

T

TommyRumble

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Atlanta, GA
I have a 96 4x4 5 speed, 190k. Driving to work today and suddenly the clutch pedal goes almost to the floor before it begins to engage. Maybe an inch or two of resistance and very difficult to shift, clutch pedal stays about two inches from the floor when released.



Moments later I can’t get it into gear at all, same amount of travel in clutch but doesn’t appear to engage. I shut it off and I could get it into gear fine. Went home in 2nd and the clutch would engage enough so I could stop at lights and such. Upon getting home, clutch will not engage, can not get into neutral. Still the same amount of travel in the clutch pedal.


There seems to be normal resistance and pedal return for an inch or two of the pedal near the floor, I can forcibly pull it all the way up back level with the gas pedal.


The reservoir at the firewall is full, didn’t see any physical problems under the vehicle or in the engine compartment. And I think I read you can’t bleed 96’s because the bleeder valve is not drilled?


I don’t even know where to start with this.
 
I would suspect the slave or the master, just best to replace them both. When I replaced my slave I drilled out the bleeder hole and bled it out that way. Fairly simple job, no real techinical tools or anything needed. Have you replaced the clutch before, I assume so?
 
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96 is that internal or external slave? A lot of bad mouthing on the internal but I say if you get 16 more years use out of a good replacement that may out live the rest of the Jeep. If it;s internal do take a close look at the clutch when you have her opened up. also the engine/trany mounts, U joints. As well as any moving part you need to remove/touch or just find in front of you when doing the slave. A LOT of double work can be avoided this way.
 
I would agree with the MC/slave bad--if no fluid leaking then the seals on the pistons of one or the other are toast and the hydraulic fluid is bypassing the piston(s)--that said, what concerns me is the failure to return of the pedal.

Get a bright spotlight and take a look at the pedal assembly up under the dash.

IF someone contaminated the hydraulic fluid by putting in a petroleum based product the "rubber" elements could be swelling and causing problems.

I would check the pedal and most likely replace the entire assembly. And you can bleed the no-bleeder slave, the procedure is in the FSM.
 
It is an external slave. I looked briefly at the pedal assembly earlier but will again more thoroughly. Unfortunatly I have a Hanes not a FSM, but the installation instructions on the new slave look like they will remove the bubbles from the swap.
 
My son's 96 developed a defective pedal asembly. The arm to which the MC pushrod is attached was poorly welded, and it came loose and bent sideways, enough to XXXX the pushrod, and that in turn caused the master cylinder to fail. Worth checking.
 
Nothing wrong with the pedal assembly, it moves freely when disengaged from the master. I replaced the master and slave as an assembly. I still have the same problem. Thoughts?
 
TommyRumble said:
Nothing wrong with the pedal assembly, it moves freely when disengaged from the master. I replaced the master and slave as an assembly. I still have the same problem. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of moving freely. Make sure that the side arm that engages the MC is still quite parallel to the pedal arm, and not bent. My 95 never did this in 263 thousand miles, but I've heard of it more than once on others.

If you replaced the whole hydraulic system, and you still have the problem, I think it's going to be either at the pedal end or the clutch end. My 99, at ~250 thousand miles, had a failure in which the throwout bearing ate through the diaphragm. It started out as hard engagement, progressed to noise and harder engagement, and ended with a big bang and a tow home. I'm kind of hoping for your sake you find a bent pedal!
 
@ Mathew. Dude, your the frikin man. Pedal weld broke at the pivot point. Replaced with the one from my 94 & problem solved. Many thanks to all.
~ T
 
I've had only one manual shift XJ-- can either of y'all post a pic of how the clutch pedal is supposed to look (when it isn't bent) ??

mine looks like it is fine, but I'm suffering from low pedal/ normal operation/ might be worn clutch symptoms. I'd love to rule-out a bent pedal before I rip into the clutch for no reason....
 
I ran out and aimed a digicam blind at mine and this is what I got. Note this is a 95. I am not sure whether the Renix era ones are the same. The 99, and I presume all 97-up, has a different pedal design as well, with the pin for the MC mounted on the pedal arm itself.
95jeeppedal.jpg
 
thanx for the effort!! The '94 is the stick shift, so it should be the same set-up.

I'm assuming that when it fails, the bent lever that attaches to the clutch m/c will not be parallel with the pedal arm.
It would actually be closer to the driver than the pedal arm, yes?


P.S. nice shot for shooting blind-- exactly what I was needing since I'll be checking from that same angle..
 
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Shorty said:
thanx for the effort!! The '94 is the stick shift, so it should be the same set-up.

I'm assuming that when it fails, the bent lever that attaches to the clutch m/c will not be parallel with the pedal arm.
It would actually be closer to the driver than the pedal arm, yes?


P.S. nice shot for shooting blind-- exactly what I was needing since I'll be checking from that same angle..
Click to expand...
My recollection is that my son's bent outward rather than inward, but yes, it should be parallel. (I only saw a picture of his a couple of years ago - his brother welded it back up for him)
 
Shorty said:
thanx for the effort!! The '94 is the stick shift, so it should be the same set-up.

I'm assuming that when it fails, the bent lever that attaches to the clutch m/c will not be parallel with the pedal arm.
It would actually be closer to the driver than the pedal arm, yes?


P.S. nice shot for shooting blind-- exactly what I was needing since I'll be checking from that same angle..
Click to expand...

Matthew Currie said:
My recollection is that my son's bent outward rather than inward, but yes, it should be parallel. (I only saw a picture of his a couple of years ago - his brother welded it back up for him)
Click to expand...

I was thinking that the arm attached to the clutch M/C would bend from the resistance in the hydraulic lines and not move when the pedal is pushed (hence remain closer to the driver), but I guess it can bend left/right a bit as well.

suffice it to say that unless it's parallel to the pedal arm AND perpendicular to the pivot bolt, it's boogered up, right?
 
Shorty said:
I was thinking that the arm attached to the clutch M/C would bend from the resistance in the hydraulic lines and not move when the pedal is pushed (hence remain closer to the driver), but I guess it can bend left/right a bit as well.

suffice it to say that unless it's parallel to the pedal arm AND perpendicular to the pivot bolt, it's boogered up, right?
Click to expand...
Right. What happened in my son's case was that it bent outward owing to a partial weld, and when it did so it still worked, sort of, but wore the bore of the MC, until one day the piston jammed in the bore and broke the plastic clevis on the pushrod.
 
well, it stopped raining and I managed to crawl under there today. Guess what I found...


everything is NORMAL:mad::mad::mad:

I guess 244,000 miles really is enough to warrant it's first clutch replacement:wow:

I did notice that the clutch pedal arm is only spot welded in two places, though-- I'll be fixing that when the clutch is apart to avoid future problems, but for now, it remains "the D.D. with a really worn-out clutch."



P.S. how long can a clutch last in these things?? I know it doesn't owe me anything, but I'd love to see over 250,000 miles before I dig into her.
('94/2.5L/AX5/2WD)
 
My 95, now retired and awaiting parting out still has a good clutch at 263k. My 99 blew its clutch at about 250K, but the friction part was fine, and it would have gone forever if the throwout bearing hadn't failed and chewed its way through the diaphragm (or did the diaphragm wear and eat the bearing? who knows?). I also never had hydraulic problems with either. It seems to be partly a matter of luck, and the lifespan may be limited more by the mechanism than the lining.
 
Shorty said:
well, it stopped raining and I managed to crawl under there today. Guess what I found...


everything is NORMAL:mad::mad::mad:

I guess 244,000 miles really is enough to warrant it's first clutch replacement:wow:

I did notice that the clutch pedal arm is only spot welded in two places, though-- I'll be fixing that when the clutch is apart to avoid future problems, but for now, it remains "the D.D. with a really worn-out clutch."



P.S. how long can a clutch last in these things?? I know it doesn't owe me anything, but I'd love to see over 250,000 miles before I dig into her.
('94/2.5L/AX5/2WD)
Click to expand...

Just like brakes, so much depends on driving habits.

Love my Wife, but she is damn hard on brakes! If the speed limit is 35 she stays right on the accelerator until the last moment at a stop sign or traffic light--freaks me out. After 18 years I have learned to brace myself and keep my screaming internal. Note--she has never been in an accident in 40 years, and I can't say that about my driving.
 
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