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  #76  
Old April 24th, 2019, 12:34
ShoeterMcgav's Avatar
ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Lol.. Just dismiss the diff and thats more then likely where the play is coming from??

Are you just wanting the problem to be with the new tranny? Is it pride that has you focused on this as the only possibility?

Block people? Keep starting new threads?

Childish responses like that is why you are getting the backlash- pun intended!

GL with all that nonsense.
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  #77  
Old June 9th, 2019, 07:53
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

We just disagree about what a technical forum should be, that's all. In my view, a technical forum should be solely for the purpose of helping others...a question is asked, advice is offered, and then the person starting the thread is free to either take the advice or not, without fear of being chastised, insulted, or ridiculed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
Lol.. Just dismiss the diff and thats more then likely where the play is coming from??

Are you just wanting the problem to be with the new tranny? Is it pride that has you focused on this as the only possibility?

Block people? Keep starting new threads?

Childish responses like that is why you are getting the backlash- pun intended!

GL with all that nonsense.
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  #78  
Old June 9th, 2019, 08:16
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

If someone can explain to me how even the worst possible driveline/differential could possibly cause the system to clunk/lurch when shifting from Neutral to Drive, but NOT when shifting from Reverse to Drive (without pausing in Neutral), THEN I will focus primarily on the differential.

It's not pride or stubbornness...I don't even understand what those emotions have to do with any of this...it's about MONEY. I'm not allowed to work on my vehicles where I live, and I don't want to pay to have my differential analyzed when, in my mind, there is no logical reason why a faulty differential would for some reason suddenly become not faulty every time I simply do not pause in Neutral when shifting to Drive.

I received a suggestion to remove the drive shaft, place the transfer case in 4H, and then see if the same thing happens with only the front differential connected, and I AM going to try that, because I can get away with doing that if my landlady doesn't notice, and because I can grease the slip joint at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
Lol.. Just dismiss the diff and thats more then likely where the play is coming from??

Are you just wanting the problem to be with the new tranny? Is it pride that has you focused on this as the only possibility?
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  #79  
Old June 9th, 2019, 08:28
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devildog0 devildog0 is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

-Spock....also Sherlock Holmes lol
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  #80  
Old June 9th, 2019, 12:54
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

I skimmed this and the other thread again. I don't see where you've popped the cover off the rear differential and looked at it yet. I get some clunk in my 89 MJ with no real difference between pausing in neutral. I have similar backlash turning by hand as you and I've got somewhere around 250k miles and I know I need to redo the motor mounts again. I noticed a lot of movement of the body in your videos under power. If your rear brakes are not working well, when you do that test under power, you could be getting extra movement as it winds up the tires and the rest of the body as it tries to drive forward. You'll also get more movement if the motor/tranny mount are shot. The AW4 doesn't have synchros gears that engage/disengage for shifting. It's all planetaries and clutches, so nothing to go "clunk" in there.
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  #81  
Old June 9th, 2019, 15:28
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Just had to move the MJ after doing the exhaust. Virtually no clunk at all. My idle was also a little lower than normal after installing the exhaust versus the previous missing everything past the cat. I also checked the play in the rear pinion. About 1/4" along the diameter twisting by hand in neutral with parking brake on. Similar to yours really.
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  #82  
Old June 10th, 2019, 02:41
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4x4JeePmaNthINg 4x4JeePmaNthINg is offline
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Question Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Could a stretched TC chain cause this? You said its never been opened. my jeep has always lurched into gear before and after regear, front or rear drive shaft only in place.

O.p. rebuilt/ replaced trans, what about tc & still interested in the previously mentioned diff inspection as well.

Are you aware of all fluid levels being correct and measuring correctly?
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  #83  
Old June 10th, 2019, 04:35
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Thanks, but I'm still hoping to find someone whose vehicle (doesn't even have to be a jeep) exhibits the same "clunk/lurch only happens after a pause in Neutral" behavior, because it doesn't seem logical that the differential/driveline would suddenly become OK every time I avoid pausing in Neutral.
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  #84  
Old June 10th, 2019, 04:59
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

I do appreciate all of the advice that I have received, but the bottom line for me is this:
If my differential/driveline (not the transmission) is the problem, then why aren't other owners ALSO able to completely eliminate THEIR clunk/lurches by simply avoiding pausing in Neutral, just as I am able to do?
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  #85  
Old June 10th, 2019, 07:45
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sidewaysstarion sidewaysstarion is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soyjer View Post
Thanks, but I'm still hoping to find someone whose vehicle (doesn't even have to be a jeep) exhibits the same "clunk/lurch only happens after a pause in Neutral" behavior, because it doesn't seem logical that the differential/driveline would suddenly become OK every time I avoid pausing in Neutral.
My 04 cummins ram with a 48RE trans does the same thing.
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  #86  
Old June 10th, 2019, 07:57
lawsoncl lawsoncl is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Can you post a picture of your motor mounts and maybe a video of the engine movement when shifting? Seems like a lot of us suspect you have a problem with the engine or transmission mounts and this might help convince them.


Maybe have a friend shift back and forth while you listen underneath for the source of the noise?
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  #87  
Old June 10th, 2019, 08:33
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsoncl View Post
Can you post a picture of your motor mounts and maybe a video of the engine movement when shifting? Seems like a lot of us suspect you have a problem with the engine or transmission mounts and this might help convince them.
Maybe have a friend shift back and forth while you listen underneath for the source of the noise?
The Spock quote above is undeniably true, but, to me, the transmission input shaft forward to the motor mounts definitely makes the most sense as the source of the problem, because of the fact that everything behind reverses direction when shifting from Reverse to Drive.
Multiple shops (including a 2nd transmission shop I took it to a month ago) have checked the motor mounts and they ALL still point to the transmission, and I have, too, but I have no problem posting a video (it's free).
I've been studying transmissions and torque converters, but I still haven't answered this question:
When an automatic transmission (especially the AW4) is in Neutral, does the input shaft spin as the impeller continues to drive the turbine, or is there some mechanism that holds the input shaft stationary?
If held stationary, then a failure of that mechanism could cause my symptoms, because the inertia of that spinning input shaft would then be present in Neutral but not in Reverse nor Drive ( all with vehicle stationary).
Same result that loose motor mounts would cause.
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  #88  
Old June 10th, 2019, 08:38
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewaysstarion View Post
My 04 cummins ram with a 48RE trans does the same thing.
Have you been able to find anyone else out there with the same?
Just to be clear...if you never pause in Neutral (always shift quickly from Reverse to Drive), you can then completely avoid the clunk/lurch problem, correct?
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  #89  
Old June 10th, 2019, 12:00
trippled trippled is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Does your idle speed kick up when pausing in neutral? Usually, in reverse, engine has load, iac is open more to maintain idle speed. Then neutral the idle speed goes until it readjusts.
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  #90  
Old June 10th, 2019, 15:51
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trippled View Post
Does your idle speed kick up when pausing in neutral? Usually, in reverse, engine has load, iac is open more to maintain idle speed. Then neutral the idle speed goes until it readjusts.
Idle speed in Neutral is ~730 rpm.
I understand and agree with your logic...all other factors being equal, if Neutral rpm far exceeds in-gear rpm, then pausing in Neutral could indeed deliver a larger wallup to the transmission output shaft when then shifted into Drive, vs. shifting without the pause in Neutral.
I'll double-check my in-gear idle rpm. Thanks.
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