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  #31  
Old April 21st, 2019, 06:56
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyS View Post
This is what you should do.

You’re in california. Post the car for $2500-3500 on CL. It doesnt even sound like that big of a problem. Dont even mention it. Most Xjs lurch. Sell the truck this summer when people are looking for camping beater vehicles. Im sure its a good truck. It runs, goes into 4lo, sell it for $2k maybe if you want it gone quick and forget about it.
Thanks, but no way I'm going to pass this problem on to some unsuspecting buyer.
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  #32  
Old April 21st, 2019, 07:10
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ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

I think the point was anyone looking for a 20 year old jeep will be ok with the "issue" you cant stand
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  #33  
Old April 21st, 2019, 07:15
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

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Originally Posted by devildog0 View Post
I cant remember if you posted this on Jeep Forum or Cherokee Forum but i still think youre way overthinking/overblowing this "problem" ive had 4 xjs. 3 with the AW4. They all had a bit of a clunk or lurch when shifting gears.

These things were designed and built during a time when noise vibration and harshness levels werent at the forefront of design considerations. I guess you at least supposedly got a free transmission out of the deal.

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1.) I've easily driven over 100 different automatic transmission vehicles in my lifetime, being a vehicle operator in the Air Force, working as an Auto Driveaway driver, etc., including trucks, buses, and cars, and the only time that I ever experienced a clunk/lurch like this was when I accidentally revved up my 318 V8 with TorqueFlite AT to about 2K rpm and then put it into drive, which immediately disabled all forward gears.

2.) I'll stop worrying about it when someone can explain to me why it only clunk/lurches after a pause in Neutral.

3) What is so difficult about just trying my little 10 second test and telling me what happens?
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  #34  
Old April 21st, 2019, 07:24
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

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Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
I think the point was anyone looking for a 20 year old jeep will be ok with the "issue" you cant stand
If they are probably going to be OK with it, then why not disclose it to them?
See "Golden Rule". I'm from California but I guess I have Midwest values. At least what used to be Midwest values.
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  #35  
Old April 21st, 2019, 10:55
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ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

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Originally Posted by soyjer View Post
If they are probably going to be OK with it, then why not disclose it to them?
See "Golden Rule". I'm from California but I guess I have Midwest values. At least what used to be Midwest values.
I never said not to man
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  #36  
Old April 21st, 2019, 11:03
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ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

I thought I explained the why it does from N and not R... Load.

When in R it is under load and so the switch tp D keeps it under load. N takes the load off the trans and driveline. R to D keeps the rotaional masses under load, just changes the direction- so it only changes in the tranny aince you arent moving. When in N to D you are reapplying this force to the whole driveline.

Trans sounds fine- its new right??
If mounts are good there may be a backlash adjustment needed but sounds like probably not. With out pulling the axles and diff cover to check the carrier, bearings, and shims- you have to call it good.

800 is pricey for a stock axle... Maybe instead of a rebuild get a quote on new bearings- or axle seals and all that will be checked when in there
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  #37  
Old April 21st, 2019, 18:43
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoeterMcgav View Post
I thought I explained the why it does from N and not R... Load.

When in R it is under load and so the switch tp D keeps it under load. N takes the load off the trans and driveline. R to D keeps the rotaional masses under load, just changes the direction- so it only changes in the tranny aince you arent moving. When in N to D you are reapplying this force to the whole driveline.

Trans sounds fine- its new right??
If mounts are good there may be a backlash adjustment needed but sounds like probably not. With out pulling the axles and diff cover to check the carrier, bearings, and shims- you have to call it good.

800 is pricey for a stock axle... Maybe instead of a rebuild get a quote on new bearings- or axle seals and all that will be checked when in there
If you are saying that loose motor mounts could cause the clunk/lurch, I am liking that, because if they could, then, as you point out, this fits in nicely with the pausing in Neutral causing the clunk/lurch.

If so, I may need a physics lesson to fully understand how it works.

I've been sitting here trying to understand how this would work, and I THINK I have come up with an analogy that fits:

Picture a car where the huge, heavy engine block rotates around a stationary crankshaft bolted to the firewall, and the driveline is therefore driven by the rotating engine block instead of the crankshaft. If you revved that rotating engine block up to 1000 rpm and then popped the clutch, you couldn't possibly stall the engine, correct? The rear wheels would spin far before the engine block would stop rotating?
On the contrary, with a conventional setup, you only have to stop the relatively low mass of the internal moving engine parts to stall the engine?

Is the above why loose motor mounts would impart a heavier blow to the drivetrain than tight motor mounts?...because of the momentum of the heavy rotating engine block compared to the relatively low momentum of just the internal moving engine parts?
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  #38  
Old April 21st, 2019, 19:12
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soyjer View Post
If you are saying that loose motor mounts could cause the clunk/lurch, I am liking that, because if they could, then, as you point out, this fits in nicely with the pausing in Neutral causing the clunk/lurch.

If so, I may need a physics lesson to fully understand how it works.

I've been sitting here trying to understand how this would work, and I THINK I have come up with an analogy that fits:

Picture a car where the huge, heavy engine block rotates around a stationary crankshaft bolted to the firewall, and the driveline is therefore driven by the rotating engine block instead of the crankshaft. If you revved that rotating engine block up to 1000 rpm and then popped the clutch, you couldn't possibly stall the engine, correct? The rear wheels would spin far before the engine block would stop rotating?
On the contrary, with a conventional setup, you only have to stop the relatively low mass of the internal moving engine parts to stall the engine?

Is the above why loose motor mounts would impart a heavier blow to the drivetrain than tight motor mounts?...because of the momentum of the heavy rotating engine block compared to the relatively low momentum of just the internal moving engine parts?
Damn...I just went out and watched the top of the valve cover while shifting (and this was with a cold engine so rpm's were like 950 instead of 730), and there isn't any noticeable movement at all, no matter what I do. If I add to that the fact that the shop I paid $90 to said that the motor mounts, transmission mounts, and rest of drivetrain were fine, I think that probably puts me back at square one, again.

Tomorrow I take it into the new transmission shop...if I learn anything new, I'll post it here. The motor mount theory made sense to me...I will ask the transmission shop about it, just in case. Thanks.
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  #39  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 07:18
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Tim_MN Tim_MN is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

If there is a differential shop on the way to the transmission shop, stop there first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjeeper

Go ahead and slam the liftgate down on a blanket, and see how long you are laughing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soyjer

Tim MAY be 100% correct, but why would a person automatically pick him as the expert .....
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  #40  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 09:23
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

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Originally Posted by Tim_MN View Post
If there is a differential shop on the way to the transmission shop, stop there first.
Tim, you've already stated that "the transmission behavior is within the range of "normal" for the 1980's Aisin Warner transmission technology", so, if you are correct, then my first stop should actually be at the psychiatrist's office, because I still maintain that this transmission behavior is definitely NOT within the range of "normal" for the 1980's Aisin Warner transmission technology.

What IS normal is how it shifts when I do not pause in Neutral.
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  #41  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 10:13
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Tim_MN Tim_MN is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

I tried, but I just can't seem to push a rope.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjeeper

Go ahead and slam the liftgate down on a blanket, and see how long you are laughing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soyjer

Tim MAY be 100% correct, but why would a person automatically pick him as the expert .....
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  #42  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 10:18
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ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

A for effort Tim
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  #43  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 11:02
soyjer soyjer is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim_MN View Post
I tried, but I just can't seem to push a rope.
If you were as knowledgeable as you think you are, you'd have an explanation for why imy "normal" XJ shifts smoothly when I don't pause in Neutral.

If it's normal, then other XJ'S would be doing the same thing. So far I've only heard from one other XJ owner whose XJ behaves this way, and he just gave you an A for telling me it's normal, so I guess he now agrees with you, for some reason.

What I am hoping for is that someone will come along who can answer my question. In the meantime, I really have nothing better to do, so I chat with you guys...hoping you will come to your senses, eventually.
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  #44  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 11:15
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

We'll you've been posting about this since November but haven't done anything recommended by the knowlegeable folks here. I don't know what more you expect.
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  #45  
Old April 22nd, 2019, 11:37
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ShoeterMcgav ShoeterMcgav is offline
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Re: Please try this with your XJ and tell me results?

Lol you are a riot man...


Ive said repeatedly it's probably nothing.

I didn't use any absolutes becuase im not there to see it for my self.

Gave you your options.

Explained why.. And the big if it isnt normal what would exaggerate it.

And you take it back to a tranny shop. Lol
I gave him an A for putting in the effort to try and help someone who doesnt want to be helped
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Last edited by ShoeterMcgav; April 22nd, 2019 at 11:53.
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