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Cylinder head bolts

Mcmadman

NAXJA Forum User
Location
michigan
Last weekend I attempted to install my head. I thought the most of my worries was making sure the rockers and other moving parts are good which I'm still not sure.
while installing the new head and torquing down the 12th bolt it snapped. I used antiseize on these bolts and it seemed like it was just spinning without getting harder to wrench.Just tonight I bought a new head gasket and bolts and cleaned out the bolt holes even more. On the 1st bolt at 110 it seemed like the same thing was happening. I untorqued it and tried torquing it back down. My dads friend insisted I use the oil I bought to install the rockers and on this forum I read a little bit of oil was okay.
Is the bolt I tried torquing still reusable?I torqued past110 twice. Any other ideas on what to do right now they all sitting at 45 ft pounds. did I also mess up thebsequence by going up and down with the ffirst bolt at 110. thanks y'all its been a battle my only experience is putting on a lift and swapping some cooling parts
 
You need to use oil on the bolt heads and threads. Anti seize reduces the friction too much. You probably went past the bolts yield and snapped it. The others sound like they have stretched too much already. I would not trust any of the head bolts you torqued with anti seize.

Engine oil works fine for the bolts. Don't need anything fancy.
 
Just for info you can't trust torque wrenches. I've had moderately high end torque wrenches mess up, especially those designed to click skip when they reach to desired torque. They may work fine for many tries and then mess up once.

I take the wrench I plan on using, put a twelve point socket one one that fits either the 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive of another torque wrench (I have four). Then I clamp one in a vise (carefully so as not to damage it) and see how closely the two torque wrenches are to each other. I try three different settings starting fairly low, around 35 lbs and working up from there.

My not be your issue. But the fifteen minutes you spend double checking your torque wrench can save a heap of trouble. I have a fairly good torque sense (I can usually feel when I'm close) and have still snapped off some bolts due to a freak torque wrench hiccup.

Another tip don't just test a single time, I've had them screw up one time in twenty.
 
Using the proper lubricant is important, specially the sealant/lubricant for bolt #11. I can only recommend ARP for those. I use nothing but ARP bolts for my builds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPoe9S7GqCI
P1080515_zpsy6cfykns.jpg
 
You need to use oil on the bolt heads and threads. Anti seize reduces the friction too much. You probably went past the bolts yield and snapped it. The others sound like they have stretched too much already. I would not trust any of the head bolts you torqued with anti seize.

Engine oil works fine for the bolts. Don't need anything fancy.

I bought a new set of bolts for my second go around. Now the first one im torquing I ran thru twice is spinning and maybe I can replace just the 1?
 
Just for info you can't trust torque wrenches. I've had moderately high end torque wrenches mess up, especially those designed to click skip when they reach to desired torque. They may work fine for many tries and then mess up once.

I take the wrench I plan on using, put a twelve point socket one one that fits either the 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive of another torque wrench (I have four). Then I clamp one in a vise (carefully so as not to damage it) and see how closely the two torque wrenches are to each other. I try three different settings starting fairly low, around 35 lbs and working up from there.

My not be your issue. But the fifteen minutes you spend double checking your torque wrench can save a heap of trouble. I have a fairly good torque sense (I can usually feel when I'm close) and have still snapped off some bolts due to a freak torque wrench hiccup.

Another tip don't just test a single time, I've had them screw up one time in twenty.

The wrench was.a brand new husky from HD...it seemed to work flawless up until #14 on my gorst try. I did test it on my lut nuts thats ablut ot but it seemed legit
 
Using the proper lubricant is important, specially the sealant/lubricant for bolt #11. I can only recommend ARP for those. I use nothing but ARP bolts for my builds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPoe9S7GqCI
P1080515_zpsy6cfykns.jpg
I'm on my second set of felpros right now I wish i wpuld have went with Sep from the start. You moved your strap to the intake then? I wonder of this 1 bolt is not good anymore? It says to only use once or twice but it wasnt in there long
 
Doesn't matter how long it's been in. Torque to yield bolts stretch slightly (yield) when torqued, which is why you're supposed to replace them. After a few times you're just torqueing a wet noodle.

And yes arp bolts are far superior.
 
I'm on my second set of felpros right now I wish i wpuld have went with Sep from the start.

You moved your strap to the intake then?

What's SEP? And are you referring to the braided "radio interference" ground strap? If so yes it was moved to the intake, the main battery ground still terminates on the block.

If you compared ARP head bolts to Jeep you would think they're "oversized"!
 
Just for info you can't trust torque wrenches. I've had moderately high end torque wrenches mess up, especially those designed to click skip when they reach to desired torque. They may work fine for many tries and then mess up once.

I take the wrench I plan on using, put a twelve point socket one one that fits either the 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive of another torque wrench (I have four). Then I clamp one in a vise (carefully so as not to damage it) and see how closely the two torque wrenches are to each other. I try three different settings starting fairly low, around 35 lbs and working up from there.

My not be your issue. But the fifteen minutes you spend double checking your torque wrench can save a heap of trouble. I have a fairly good torque sense (I can usually feel when I'm close) and have still snapped off some bolts due to a freak torque wrench hiccup.

Another tip don't just test a single time, I've had them screw up one time in twenty.

I'm not buying it! My oldest is 50yrs old and still on the money and probably has seen 10,000 builds! I have 2 1/4", 2 3/8", 2 1/2", and 1 3/4" torque wrenches. If your curious I picked up a torque adapter for other uses plus checking my equipment.
acdelco-testers-install-kits-acdarm602-4-64_1000.jpg
 
So I probably have to replace the bolt I torqued down amd start the whole pattern over?I could buy one bolt from the dealer?everything's at 45 ft lbs right now. I just read an article about new heads and bolts surfaves making he bolt washer slip and not get a good torque reading also oil makes it worse
 
So I probably have to replace the bolt I torqued down amd start the whole pattern over?I could buy one bolt from the dealer?everything's at 45 ft lbs right now. I just read an article about new heads and bolts surfaves making he bolt washer slip and not get a good torque reading also oil makes it worse

How did the one bolt get to 110#, you "could" buy one bolt after explaining the previous, the rest is B.S. !!!
 
Generally speaking, I don't like to torque in increments larger than 20ft/lbs, the "feel of the pull" is extremely important!
 
I'm not buying it! My oldest is 50yrs old and still on the money and probably has seen 10,000 builds! I have 2 1/4", 2 3/8", 2 1/2", and 1 3/4" torque wrenches. If your curious I picked up a torque adapter for other uses plus checking my equipment.
acdelco-testers-install-kits-acdarm602-4-64_1000.jpg

I have five, two are iffy, one is an old Craftsman that wasn't cheap, cost me a hundred and fifty 25 years ago. Screwed up maybe six months after I bought it, the fine print said no guarantee on torque wrenches. Once out of every 20-30 tries it doesn't click. On another mid quality torque wrench, the ratchet started slipping.

The only reason I brought it up was as a remote possibility. If it happened once or twice it can happen again.
 
I'm just wondering how bad it would be to re use this bolt I should have just gone to the dealership or ordered a new set of arp...i torqued it down and then backed it off and torqued it down again. However id still like to know the cause of something that is causing me to lose time and money ive already broken a brand new bolt and have another new one slipping. Right now I'm thinking the oil and new machined surfaces are slipping but I'm seeing you SHOULDuse oil. Is thetr supposed to be oil between the washer and the head?
 
I'm confused. In your first post you said you broke it with anti seize, now you say you broke it with oil. The head bolt torque values are designed with oiled threads, bolt head and washer. Nothing else.

If you broke the bolt with oiled threads and bolt head and washer, either the bolt was bad, your torque wrench is crap or you have some Burr or oil in the hole locking the bolt up.
 
I'm far from an 4.0 expert, but have done many heads on pumps, industrial machinery and various motors.

Used to be the bolts could be reused once, seems to be not recommended now. Next question, are you reusing the same head gasket? Different designs of head gasket, most have a slight bit of crush built in. I wouldn't use the same head gasket.

The one that broke doesn't concern me as much as the one you say slipped. Possible the one that broke was flawed. Are the threads in the block OK. The threads on the bolt OK? Can you see any metal pieces in the threads?

I don't oil the threads before torquing, in most instances. The torque readings are dry torque, unless otherwise specified.

I have a set of thread chasers, a shop vac comes in handy. Thread chasers work better than taps, especially on blind holes.

Used to be (when I was taught in the middle of the last century) wet torque was 10% less than dry torque as a rule, things change. I'm really good about cleaning threads really well. Brake cleaner and air work well, maybe a small round brush if needed. I use nylon gun bore brushes or eve brass bore brushes for stubborn stuff.

One of my most used tools is a good powerful flashlight and a welders mirror as needed.

Another thought did you clean out the dowel holes? Is your head and block straight? I've seen heads with significant warp or bow. A good straight edge and a flashlight behind the straight edge can do a quick check.

Are you torquing correctly, in stages and the right sequence?

One in a hundred chance, but are you sure your torque wrench is good?
 
I'm confused. In your first post you said you broke it with anti seize, now you say you broke it with oil. The head bolt torque values are designed with oiled threads, bolt head and washer. Nothing else.

If you broke the bolt with oiled threads and bolt head and washer, either the bolt was bad, your torque wrench is crap or you have some Burr or oil in the hole locking the bolt up.
2 different sets of bolts yes.
 
I'm far from an 4.0 expert, but have done many heads on pumps, industrial machinery and various motors.

Used to be the bolts could be reused once, seems to be not recommended now. Next question, are you reusing the same head gasket? Different designs of head gasket, most have a slight bit of crush built in. I wouldn't use the same head gasket.

The one that broke doesn't concern me as much as the one you say slipped. Possible the one that broke was flawed. Are the threads in the block OK. The threads on the bolt OK? Can you see any metal pieces in the threads?

I don't oil the threads before torquing, in most instances. The torque readings are dry torque, unless otherwise specified.

I have a set of thread chasers, a shop vac comes in handy. Thread chasers work better than taps, especially on blind holes.

Used to be (when I was taught in the middle of the last century) wet torque was 10% less than dry torque as a rule, things change. I'm really good about cleaning threads really well. Brake cleaner and air work well, maybe a small round brush if needed. I use nylon gun bore brushes or eve brass bore brushes for stubborn stuff.

One of my most used tools is a good powerful flashlight and a welders mirror as needed.

Another thought did you clean out the dowel holes? Is your head and block straight? I've seen heads with significant warp or bow. A good straight edge and a flashlight behind the straight edge can do a quick check.

Are you torquing correctly, in stages and the right sequence?

One in a hundred chance, but are you sure your torque wrench is good?
I cleaned the bolt holes the first time and second time went in again with an old bolt with a channel cut in it vaseleone followed by brake clean and air... I didnt want to take it apart last but I only really inspected the hole with the broke bolt and the threads looked good. So since wrenched that bolt down..backed it off and then wrenched it again that counts as its lifetime right?I followed factory torque instructions.
I have a brand new clear water head I did not check my block with a straight edge.i also bougjt a new head gasket.
 
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