Nightmare midarm 3 link rehabilitation

I have you crawled under your jeep?

I dont know how much lifts hes running but on mine running the lower link below the frame and the upper so it matches separation at axle would be tuff. Unless separation is only 3" I honestly have not measured separation on axle end but will assume by looking with my trained eye that it's more than that.
However I don't know what hes running on the axle end. Factory mounts or the original owner changed the axle end.

I think to make fitment easier and get some misalignment out of upper to go inboard on the frame I'd run heims
Or a bushing with a link welded on with misalignment built into the arm.

I dont think that would affect characteristics but I dont really no. Also wonder if it would bind. The shape of bar isnt supposed to matter it's a straight line from end to end even if the bars bent in a S shape.

I'll be doing mine I've looked under it after reading calculators and scratch my head cme to the conclusion if it doesnt work to my needs wants after making it fit on the jeep I can change it.

If it rides like a water bed I'll have to change something up. Most likely separation on frame end.

I'm looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

RCP Phx said:

All this is good info, but the bottom line is it's easier to achieve on a "mid-arm" than a "long arm" giving the OP no excuse to do it right.

Click to expand...

What’s easier?

My LCA mounts are literally touching the cross member....It’s probably like a few inches from where a “long” arm would mount. With the upper control arm I actually think having LAs, and more importantly the crossmember, this portion would be much easier.


The heim with misalignment spacers doesn’t seem like such a bad on the upper ca.. still, being vertical is.


I’ll have to get a bracket in one hand and a tape in the other.... I see it exactly the same though- if it works like shiit, cut it off and try again!

Seems like your making this harder. By your description the SFR brackets would work for you and they are cheap at that price compared to making something unknown.

If I wasn’t overthinking it, I’d be done.. keeping the same poor design until it broke. And well I’d end up right back where we are now huh?

Thanks for the input, truly...

That SFR bracket definitely looks nice. From the pic idk that they follow the “rules” in the geometry thread posted above... as in upper should have the same separation as axle side, I think 8”s off the top of my head, as well as having the upper be a couple inches longer then lowers to keep pinion angle through droop.

I doubt any of that would correlate to me having some major issue... but that’s why I’m making it harder- do it right do it once. Had the previous owner lived by that creed- we wouldn’t be here

Most the bought kits dont follow the rules. Prett much get close as you can call it good then over build.
I may order some heims not my steering out then look at links closer..

I think 8" separation could handle a big tire.

I'd have to research some to re learn link separation vs tires diameter.

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I can agree with that... just look at the long arm kits with upper ca mounts like mine! Can’t believe there even exists a vertical mount in a kit. As far as geometry- the majority of kits out there are radius arms, and well math don lie!

I installed Claytons on my ZJ, in the radius arm flavor. I don’t think he even offered a true 4 link at that time.... Truth be told, it rode MUCH better then the rubicon express short arms, and performance off road was night and day improved greatly. The binding issues were felt (particularly up hill rock climbs) but I didn’t realize what was happening until I watched a rig with a triangulated 3 link get through an obstacle followed by having my bro do it in mine. Not end of the world, but definitely wasn’t as free/ smooth and less stable. My junk made it look more intense then it actually was.

I also ate the axle side control arm bushings MUCH faster then I anticipated

I’m riding 35s for the foreseeable future. When I decide to go bigger and build some 1tons, the suspension will have to be looked into again anyway.


Definitely interested in your interpretation on what you calculate. Nothing’s getting burnt in until I get a mount anyhow

I'm not going to build off a calculator. If I did I'd end up removing most everything around the suspension to do it and get frustrated because there's just not room to make a perfectly calculated system.
I've researched and read so much seen rigs built bought they're all different some do amazing some are very lack luster.

My rig would honestly probably be greatly helped with control arm drop brackets at the frame. I'd end up with nearly flat links and save tons of money and time.
But what fun would that be.

I definitely like the mid arm idea.

Also thought radius would be quick and easy could be changed to 3 or 4 link later.

I feel a flat track bar may also improve things maybe not but I think it might so my next move is steering and track.
Debating doing some welding on the knuckle nd running both tie rod and drag link over the knuckle double shear the passenger side.

Yes the vertical upper link to me just isnt right kinda like a tie rod on the frame end of the track bar. Wtf were they thinking but it's worked on jeeps and pickups for along time. So maybe a vertical suspension joint isn't as horrible as I think.

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Rod ends of any type don't typically have a "orientation", they only have "travel/angle" specifiations.

Just measured link separation on factory dana 30 and its 7.5ish to 8.

Eyeing it looks like a mid arm would be doable with maybe parallel links matching axle end. Or close.

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RCP Phx said:

Rod ends of any type don't typically have a "orientation", they only have "travel/angle" specifiations.

Click to expand...

This seems like a random thing to say? Clearly we are talking about the mount dictating the orientation. If i change the vertical mount to horizontal (as this whole thread has been about) of course I can run the same heim if I so desired.

Evan03 said:

Just measured link separation on factory dana 30 and its 7.5ish to 8.

Eyeing it looks like a mid arm would be doable with maybe parallel links matching axle end. Or close.

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Click to expand...

My thoughts as well. Where the current mount for the uca is actually good in this regard. The uca remains very flat at ride height. Id prefer to extend it past the lower ca though, as that seems to be the best.

If you see the stock uca mount however, extending this on the same plane is impossible as you line up in the unibody. . the stock upper isnt level though so bringing it down is good. the angle of the diff mount might make some misalignment of one of the joints with the mount inboard of the ubibody? Not sure that this is a big deal though

I dont think some misalignment is a big deal.
What joints are on the axle end?

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I have replaced the heim with an Iron rock offroad flex joint into the differntial ear. Thinking JJ to match the lower arms into the ody side of the upper ca

You have picture of that?

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If this is the one..... https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/product/upper-control-arm-flex-joint-8-bolt-12-cartridge.html

That is badass.thank you for sharing

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Yep that’s the exact one.
I ordered first the ballistic joint, but it isn’t press in, and would be better served on the passenger side- which I don’t even have a bracket there. The ballistics joint boasts a few degrees more misalignment- but not sure I’d ever notice a whopping 3*. Both offer more (about ~25%) then the JJ and both are cheaper is why I didn’t go with the Currie/ RockJock offering

Flex joint $44.99 1/2” bolt press in 30* misalignment
https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/product/upper-control-arm-flex-joint-8-bolt-12-cartridge.html

Ballistic joint $39.99 1/2” bolt won’t press in unfortunately with 33* misalignment
https://www.ballisticfabrication.com/collections/ballistic-joints/products/2-0-ballistic-joint

JJ greasable bolt at 66$ for 1/2 in bolt. Press in 22* misalignment
https://www.rockjock4x4.com/CE-9112M2

Hows the build going?

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Waiting for JJs and dom to get the lower CAs in.. And the body side bracket to come in so that I can figure out how to proceed. Really like the IRO flex joint! Gotnit installed and am glad I won't have to ever burn any rubber out of the diff again! Got my steering components painted and heim joints for the dub J beefy steering so thats a plus.

I used a ball joint press for the flex joint... Got me thinkn I should do the actual ball jojnts. So that should be fun. I think doing it outside of the heep will make it more of a pita then it already is... But meh, I want the front end DONE. top to bottom.

Also on the list (as of yet not purchased or sourced) is beefy diff cover, axle truss, and hydro assist. The hydro assist will greatly help turn the locked 35s... Thought I had help to tapp the gear box locally, now it looks like I will be tapping the box myself. So that should be interesting. I want to get the ram welded on before I truss it too. Still need to pick what and where for both ram and truss though. Should prolly source the truss I want, nd might could mount the ram to it. Idk, artic4×4 has a niiiice one for a semi decent price.


So ya pretty much spinning my wheels, but not literally at all!

I haven't tapped a pump but have done some reading on it and I'm sure youl be fine.

Yes I didnt know iro press in joints existed till you. Those are badass

I know all about spinning wheels. I pulled mine in the garage to start building motor mounts now the things on jack stands and rear axles on the floor


I really like ruff stuff cover. Only thing I dont like is ruff stuff rarely has what I need in stock even if the website says they do.

Looking forward to you getting your wheels slowed and parts gather on the rig.

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