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lockers! what ya running and why?

I ran an aussie up front in my 94 for years, including a lot of street driving and I never had an issue, though the noise was kind of annoying sometimes.

I've got ARB's front and rear now and I'm really enjoying it. Had I not bought axles that already had them and gears done, I probably wouldn't have sprung for them. In fact I had another aussie ready to go in the front of my 01 before these fell into my lap.

If I did it again I'd probably do an auto locker in the rear, and a selectable up front. I find that its rare I don't want the rear locked, so I wouldn't mind the simplicity back.
 
I did it for years with no issues. I think you have no idea how an automatic locker works. Detroit, Grizzly, Aussie, Lock-rite, etc. Do you think every XJ, TJ, ZJ, WJ, JK with a front locker is either running a selectable or “messing up” their front axle?

I maybe be rude but you need to SPOBI

You will need to explain what a spobi is.

at anyrate the original poster of this thread indicated his front end has been locked for years, and that he has gone thru several steering systems, possibly because of that.
If he is driving on dry pavement locked, well that can explain the steering damage.

I suggest he use a selectable locker so he can unlock when on pavement, and I stand by that statement. otherwise he can go with a limited slip device, or go open diff. but if he wants to be fully locked, it needs to be selectable if he intends to turn corners on dry pavement.
Now what is wrong with that? Maybe you can explain otherwise without being rude? Id appreciate that. Thanks.

My arb is only locked when needed on dirt, never on pavement, as driving on dry pavement locked will cause damage.
 
Seems like the ideal combo depends on the intended usage. I went with a truetrac in the rear because my XJ sees a lot of street time, and for reasons I don't quite yet understand, the Duratracs on my XJ suck for street traction especially in the rain. truetrac fixed the single spinning tire issue, and it will improve traction in dirt. I have no plans for any offroad that will be lifting a wheel off the ground, so I think a truetrac is fine for me at the rear. And I can always try the ebrake trick although I've heard varying opinions on whether it actually works.

The front is still open, and I'm debating whether to go truetrac there or an elocker. I like that a truetrac at the front will improve all around traction in the dirt, but I'm tempted by the elocker to get me full-locked traction at the front in unexpected situations. No plans for an auto-locker at the front. Doesn't appeal to me for snow driving.

Another factor seems to be whether there will be any snow driving. My general impression is that a locked axle in the snow, especially at the front, is a major handful.
 
...... original poster of this thread indicated his front end has been locked for years, and that he has gone thru several steering systems, possibly because of that.

I've had both ends lunchbox locked for a few years.


OP states automatic locking differentials, not spool or welded spider gears. Accident damage or abuse is the likely cause of OP's issues.




.
 
You will need to explain what a spobi is.

Stop Putting Out Bunk Information.

at anyrate the original poster of this thread indicated his front end has been locked for years, and that he has gone thru several steering systems, possibly because of that.
If he is driving on dry pavement locked, well that can explain the steering damage.

OP never wrote anything about poor handling or issues driving on the street. He wrote that he was on his third steering gear, but you or I have no information about what kind of steering gears they were. 200k mile junkyard takeouts? Parts store reman? If he had put in two new PSC boxes, he probably would have indicated that (and probably wouldn't be having steering box issues). He also indicated the frame rail was messed up, yes, but that he had ripped off a bumper and had no steering box bracing or reinforcement previously. The steering box area is a long time know weak spot when wheeling hard.

I suggest he use a selectable locker so he can unlock when on pavement, and I stand by that statement. otherwise he can go with a limited slip device, or go open diff. but if he wants to be fully locked, it needs to be selectable if he intends to turn corners on dry pavement.

Selectable lockers are nice, but NOT REQUIRED. I stand by that statement.

Try this: http://www.offroaders.com/technical/how-does-a-locker-work-the-locking-differential-explained/

Now what is wrong with that? Maybe you can explain otherwise without being rude? Id appreciate that. Thanks.
What's wrong is it's not true.

My arb is only locked when needed on dirt, never on pavement, as driving on dry pavement locked will cause damage.

ARBs are swell. As I said, I have one in the back of the buggy, which will have no street miles ever. But, my old XJ had Aussie locker in the front and Detroit locker in the rear (when it had D30/D44) and had no "damage" "excess wear" "dangerous handling" etc.

Have you ever run an automatic locker in the front axle, or did the air locker salesman tell you that that's what you "have to" do?
 
The original guy says his front has been locked for years. If it is locked, it wont allow differential wheel speed, that maybe the problem of causing the steering gear damage.

He needs it unlocked for street use. Is that not correct?

Seems like his lunchbox locker is busted, keeping it locked all the time ("locked for years") if he wants to drive on the street he needs some way of it unlocking, be it automatically, or driver selectable, or go with an open diff., Is that not correct?
 
Hey man it's all in the wording... People say "locked" all the time.... This can be any combo of welded,spool, selectable,or ratchet.... I'd guess most often on an xj ppl are referring to a lunchbox locker due to price. These require no actuation and are always "locked" but they allow wheels to spin at different speeds. This all means when they (lunchbox or ratchet locker) are used with no power being sent to them (such as the front axle in 2wd on the street) they allow the wheels to turn independently... no steering damage comes from this. 4wd shouldn't be used on hard pack(high traction surfaces) at all.

With all this being said I run a cheap sylvan locker in the front on 35s..... The rear is an 8.8 with a factory lsd that has been repacked with junkyard clutches. On the street it is perfectly content. The ratcheting from the front doesn't bother me. My steering is also original with well over 300k on it....

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Hey man it's all in the wording... People say "locked" all the time.... This can be any combo of welded,spool, selectable,or ratchet.... I'd guess most often on an xj ppl are referring to a lunchbox locker due to price. These require no actuation and are always "locked" but they allow wheels to spin at different speeds. This all means when they (lunchbox or ratchet locker) are used with no power being sent to them (such as the front axle in 2wd on the street) they allow the wheels to turn independently... no steering damage comes from this. 4wd shouldn't be used on hard pack(high traction surfaces) at all.

With all this being said I run a cheap sylvan locker in the front on 35s..... The rear is an 8.8 with a factory lsd that has been repacked with junkyard clutches. On the street it is perfectly content. The ratcheting from the front doesn't bother me. My steering is also original with well over 300k on it....

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Hey man it is in the wording, when I read "locked for years" I considered his axles were locked together for years, (i.e. his lunch box system was stuck locked all the time) which will cause problems when turning unless the road surface allows for tire slip.
For that someone used the word "ignorant" about me, rather than explaining that "locked for years" might possibly mean something else.

Time to ratchet this down, and get back to discussing why the original,poster is having damaged steering gear rather than tossing about insults, don't you think?

Now why is he going thru so many steering parts? Is his locker always locked, and does he drive it locked (meaning axles locked together) on the street? More info is needed to help diagnose the problem.:dunno:
 
Hey man it is in the wording, when I read "locked for years" I considered his axles were locked together for years, (i.e. his lunch box system was stuck locked all the time) which will cause problems when turning unless the road surface allows for tire slip.
For that someone used the word "ignorant" about me, rather than explaining that "locked for years" might possibly mean something else.

Time to ratchet this down, and get back to discussing why the original,poster is having damaged steering gear rather than tossing about insults, don't you think?

Now why is he going thru so many steering parts? Is his locker always locked, and does he drive it locked (meaning axles locked together) on the street? More info is needed to help diagnose the problem.:dunno:

I don't think you are understanding (or are ignoring) the terms people generally use. My rig is locked= I have lockers. it does not mean your shafts are hard locked together like a spool 100% of the time. If you have a locker in front and are in 2WD, the locker will not lock the shafts together. You need power to the diff to activate a mechanical locker. Thousands and thousands of people drive around on the street locked (with lockers) with zero issue.
 
I don't think you are understanding (or are ignoring) the terms people generally use. My rig is locked= I have lockers. it does not mean your shafts are hard locked together like a spool 100% of the time. If you have a locker in front and are in 2WD, the locker will not lock the shafts together. You need power to the diff to activate a mechanical locker. Thousands and thousands of people drive around on the street locked (with lockers) with zero issue.

I have a locker in the rear, but I don't refer to my rig as "locked" unless the locker is engaged.

If someone tells me they are driving a locked rig I am going to think they mean they are running a spool or a Lincoln (or Miller) locker.

I don't know if the variance is regional or personal, but I do not think it is safe to assume that if you tell someone your rig is "locked" they will understand that it is sometimes locked and sometimes not. More clarification is needed if you actually want people to understand.
 
I don't think you are understanding (or are ignoring) the terms people generally use. My rig is locked= I have lockers. it does not mean your shafts are hard locked together like a spool 100% of the time. If you have a locker in front and are in 2WD, the locker will not lock the shafts together. You need power to the diff to activate a mechanical locker. Thousands and thousands of people drive around on the street locked (with lockers) with zero issue.

Granted, but being called ignorant and accused of providing "bunk information" sure is not a good way of communicating that the original poster may mean something else than what I understood what was meant

For me locked means the two axle halves are locked together. Done a good deal of wheeling with many other offroaders with lockers, and when we say "locked" we understand that means the locker is engaged. I guess some folks just don't understand that, and rather fling insults than provide clarification.

We have yet to hear from the original poster for clarification. I guess we are all ignorant and full of bunk until then! Ignorance is bliss!:party:

I hope the original poster lets us know, this is an interesting issue.
 
..... both ends lunchbox locked for a few years.

.



Implies a Lock Right style automatic locker, doesn't it ? Saying locker or locked to me, is a locking differential.

Spool is spool and welded is welded.



denverd1 was not perfectly clear in his post, but assuming one thing or another without clarification from the OP is where your misunderstanding begins.
 
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I've had both ends lunchbox locked for a few years. It's a barrel of fun. Swapping axles. Thinking about lockers. What I like, didn't like, never doing again type of thing.



Being front locked on 33's has created some issues, namely steering gears. I'm on my 3rd. The frame rail where the gear mounts is also F'd. I believe the rig had a collision on front driver corner. I beefed it all up when I ripped the bumper off, but didn't give that section of frame rail any love. Got a SFR brace for the inner frame and will throw some angle iron and plate on bottom and outside.



I'm also going hydro assist when the axles go in. will be on 37s and wouldn't trust the gear to hold up getting out of my driveway in current form.



So... since I'm doing hydro assist, do lunchbox again for simplicity? I like simplicity. they just work. no air lines or other crap to break. point and shoot. will hydro assist negate any turning-while-locked issues? they're cheap and I've never had a problem after beating on them pretty hard for several years. ratcheting doesn't bother me...



Or! go auto in the rear, something selectable or at least with better manners up front?

Eaton or any other e-locker would work. Not as simple, but definitely not complicated.



Does grizzly stay locked or only engage with wheel spin? I would be ok with that.



Any LSD worth putting up front? I'd rather have a more mechanical relationship than clutches. Do they still suck?



will be 90% trail, 10% road trips jeep to the local jeep event. may swing by the Bed Bath and Beyond, don't know if we'll have time.



those with locked front ends, what do you have and why?
Maybe this thread can get back on track.... Steering with a locked front axle is added stress in 4x4 for sure. I added a 2wd low mod to my np231 and use it all the time. So often I find myself needing low range but not necessarily all 4 wheels digging while trail riding. It's 4x4 on the fly so when I see an obstacle I know requires 4x4 (rock garden, mud, etc) I engage the front right before I get there.

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Auto lockers are designed to unlock and slip when turning on pavement in 2wd. End of that discussion.

Yes I beat the shit out my rig. Stock steering gears are not designed to turn locked 33s. Would a selectable be better? Yes. Was always a temporary solution until I swapped bigger axles. I have no regerts.

I'm liking the Detroit rear, e-locker up front concept.

Budget? IDK. Is whatever it takes a bad answer? Not a cheap hobby and I want it done right.

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I have auto lockers. Spartan, aussie, lokka.

Not welded, not spools.

I do not drive around on pavement with 4wd engaged. I do some dumb shit, but I'm not that dumb.

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ACTUAL QUESTION:
Has anyone run an auto locker (see above) with hydro assist??

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Auto lockers are designed to unlock and slip when turning on pavement in 2wd. End of that discussion.

Yes I beat the shit out my rig. Stock steering gears are not designed to turn locked 33s. Would a selectable be better? Yes. Was always a temporary solution until I swapped bigger axles. I have no regerts.

I'm liking the Detroit rear, e-locker up front concept.

Budget? IDK. Is whatever it takes a bad answer? Not a cheap hobby and I want it done right.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



The larger Dodge Durango steering gear box is a direct fit replacement on the XJ I have done that. I forget the exact years of Dodge that it comes from but an interweb search should find that for you. The Dodge gear box is larger than the XJ box, but bolts in easy anyway.

I have had no problem with that gear box and I do have 33x12.5 MT tires and an ARB air locker.
I did add a cross brace on the gear box which goes to the passenger side frame.

I got the gear box at the wrecker for very little money. I looked for a low mileage wrecked Dodge and checked to be sure the steering fluid is clean before I bought it
I use the stock pump. I did add a steering fluid cooler and filter on the return line.

That maybe all you need to do, it is a very economical upgrade.

What does IDK mean?

good luck!
 
Already bought the ram, fittings and lines.

IDK means I don't know.

So whats the difference in a Detroit and a Spartan?
Clutch based engagement?

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