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Important

You are missing the entire point of SAE....


Am i?

about Formula SAE said:
The concept behind Formula SAE is that a fictional manufacturing company has contracted a design team to develop a small Formula-style race car. The prototype race car is to be evaluated for its potential as a production item. The target marketing group for the race car is the non-professional weekend autocross racer. Each student team designs, builds and tests a prototype based on a series of rules whose purpose is both to ensure onsite event operations and promote clever problem solving.

Seems like its a design contest surrounded by the premise of prototyping and performing. Financial backing and management is an important part of being a real world engineer or designer. Learning to work within your limits or aligning yourself with an organization or sponsor who can expand those limits seems like a pretty worthwile lesson to me


Short"for the sake of argument"xjdoug
 
If you think the students are responsible for coming up with hundreds of thousands you're out of your mind.

Take a kid with rich parents vs a kid that works with local shops scrounging up a couple hundred bucks so they can buy a couple rod ends.

But the rich kid wins because his rod ends are unobtanium vs kid with a $200 budget bought his during the RuffStuff Halloween sale....
 
If you think the students are responsible for coming up with hundreds of thousands you're out of your mind.

Take a kid with rich parents vs a kid that works with local shops scrounging up a couple hundred bucks so they can buy a couple rod ends.

But the rich kid wins because his rod ends are unobtanium vs kid with a $200 budget bought his during the RuffStuff Halloween sale....


I think its a stretch to say the rich kid wins. The poor kid learns to be savvy with resource allocation, design function as well as compromise based on materials and real world availability. Education wise each takes important lessons away and in some cases the poor kid learns more about functioning in a cost controlled world.

Yeah it does suck sometimes, but from an education standpoint i think everyone leaves with something important. Besides theres always going to be some yahoo out there throwing more money at it, it doesn't always necessarily make them the best


Edit: for the record i am the poor kid in that scenario. I still have just as much fun as the rich kid
 
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I think its a stretch to say the rich kid wins. The poor kid learns to be savvy with resource allocation, design function as well as compromise based on materials and real world availability. Education wise each takes important lessons away and in some cases the poor kid learns more about functioning in a cost controlled world.

Yeah it does suck sometimes, but from an education standpoint i think everyone leaves with something important


They do, I'm not arguing that. I just think it's unfair that a school has to aim at "top 30" instead of "top 3" even though their car is just as fast, it's just their budget doesn't allow exotic parts.

In my opinion if it was about the racing.. things would be more even. You can only push that tire so far and I think that limit is well within reach for most every schools budget.

But in the guise of "engineering", they've (SAE) turned it into a budget game. Who can have the most expensive wobble stoppers.

Now this is all from my experience in formula. I don't know if this is true for Baja.
 
So our inspection was today and we failed bc of some debris piles in the back 9 of the property left by the previous owners. Our inspector let slip that the complaint came from the board chairman who is, surprise, surprise... The lap dog of said big company. Apparently someone walked the entire property and took pictures. So nothing that was visible from the road is the issue. No trespassing signs apparently don't apply to members of the county board.
 
Re: Re: Important

So our inspection was today and we failed bc of some debris piles in the back 9 of the property left by the previous owners. Our inspector let slip that the complaint came from the board chairman who is, surprise, surprise... The lap dog of said big company. Apparently someone walked the entire property and took pictures. So nothing that was visible from the road is the issue. No trespassing signs apparently don't apply to members of the county board.
Have the person who took the pics arrested for trespassing...if it's posted, and they don't have a warrant for anything, then it's still illegal
 
And on that note, if it was all about the racing.. The cars would be twice as fast.
its really not at all. its structured so that even a 1st place car wont do well overall unless they perform equally well in both dynamic and static events.

Seems like its a design contest surrounded by the premise of prototyping and performing. Financial backing and management is an important part of being a real world engineer or designer. Learning to work within your limits or aligning yourself with an organization or sponsor who can expand those limits seems like a pretty worthwile lesson to me


Short"for the sake of argument"xjdoug
thats pretty much right on the head.

its a design series first. the trade off is getting to compete in a race as well. fruits of your labor, if you will...



If you think the students are responsible for coming up with hundreds of thousands you're out of your mind.

Take a kid with rich parents vs a kid that works with local shops scrounging up a couple hundred bucks so they can buy a couple rod ends.

But the rich kid wins because his rod ends are unobtanium vs kid with a $200 budget bought his during the RuffStuff Halloween sale....
we did it... we raised over $20k. it wasnt handed to us by any means.


I think its a stretch to say the rich kid wins. The poor kid learns to be savvy with resource allocation, design function as well as compromise based on materials and real world availability. Education wise each takes important lessons away and in some cases the poor kid learns more about functioning in a cost controlled world.

Yeah it does suck sometimes, but from an education standpoint i think everyone leaves with something important. Besides theres always going to be some yahoo out there throwing more money at it, it doesn't always necessarily make them the best


Edit: for the record i am the poor kid in that scenario. I still have just as much fun as the rich kid
truth.

They do, I'm not arguing that. I just think it's unfair that a school has to aim at "top 30" instead of "top 3" even though their car is just as fast, it's just their budget doesn't allow exotic parts.

In my opinion if it was about the racing.. things would be more even. You can only push that tire so far and I think that limit is well within reach for most every schools budget.

But in the guise of "engineering", they've (SAE) turned it into a budget game. Who can have the most expensive wobble stoppers.

Now this is all from my experience in formula. I don't know if this is true for Baja.
look at ultra 4. its consistently the same names finishing top 5. breaking through that barrier is a tall glass of water, and being consistent is an even harder task.

the racing aspect is as even as it is going to get. the motor is spec, and the only rules are on chassis and safety regulations. they have to tone it back. they dont know who is welding these chassis, they dont know how experienced they are. ya we submit weld samples. but still. imagine the trouble we would get into with more power. even formula is governed despite their horsepower. restrictor plates are mandatory, and track speeds avereage below 40mph. sure they can get up and cook, but the tracks are designed to limit that.

teams with less provisions make due. they are allowed to reuse chassis and building a new car every year is not mandatory. one team we talked to claimed that their most extravagant piece of machinery in their "shop" was a drill press. i dont remember them performing well but the car was beautiful. come race day, its not all about budget either. there is a lot to be said about staying on the track and simply ticking off laps.
 
So our inspection was today and we failed bc of some debris piles in the back 9 of the property left by the previous owners. Our inspector let slip that the complaint came from the board chairman who is, surprise, surprise... The lap dog of said big company. Apparently someone walked the entire property and took pictures. So nothing that was visible from the road is the issue. No trespassing signs apparently don't apply to members of the county board.

You are in for shitstorm it sounds like.

Have the person who took the pics arrested for trespassing...if it's posted, and they don't have a warrant for anything, then it's still illegal

Depends on the county. You have to prove who it was, then prove that the No Trespassing signs could be seen from all access points to the property, even if there was one little place that you could access the property where you couldn't see a sign, that is grounds for a defense.

mac 'and if big pockets are involved...' gyvr
 
Re: Re: Important

You are in for shitstorm it sounds like.



Depends on the county. You have to prove who it was, then prove that the No Trespassing signs could be seen from all access points to the property, even if there was one little place that you could access the property where you couldn't see a sign, that is grounds for a defense.

mac 'and if big pockets are involved...' gyvr
Sure...the pics should have a digital stamp that will tie them to a camera and the person who owns it. I'm not saying it would work by any means, but if you can send a message, then you have every right to. I do know there are a few guys on here who would come out with guns drawn if some stranger was snapping pics on their property...
 
its really not at all. its structured so that even a 1st place car wont do well overall unless they perform equally well in both dynamic and static events.





thats pretty much right on the head.



its a design series first. the trade off is getting to compete in a race as well. fruits of your labor, if you will...









we did it... we raised over $20k. it wasnt handed to us by any means.







truth.





look at ultra 4. its consistently the same names finishing top 5. breaking through that barrier is a tall glass of water, and being consistent is an even harder task.



the racing aspect is as even as it is going to get. the motor is spec, and the only rules are on chassis and safety regulations. they have to tone it back. they dont know who is welding these chassis, they dont know how experienced they are. ya we submit weld samples. but still. imagine the trouble we would get into with more power. even formula is governed despite their horsepower. restrictor plates are mandatory, and track speeds avereage below 40mph. sure they can get up and cook, but the tracks are designed to limit that.



teams with less provisions make due. they are allowed to reuse chassis and building a new car every year is not mandatory. one team we talked to claimed that their most extravagant piece of machinery in their "shop" was a drill press. i dont remember them performing well but the car was beautiful. come race day, its not all about budget either. there is a lot to be said about staying on the track and simply ticking off laps.


You said it... It's a design series first. That's the problem! It's not fair to the smaller schools that can't afford to build their entire car out of titanium and carbon fiber. It's like trying to win a magazines supercar of the year with a Fiero.

The teams placing in formula year after year had budgets of 500k. When a formula team with a budget of 20k ranks top 3 I'll listen.

You're comparing ultra4 to something that's meant to be a learning experience...
 
Sure...the pics should have a digital stamp that will tie them to a camera and the person who owns it. I'm not saying it would work by any means, but if you can send a message, then you have every right to. I do know there are a few guys on here who would come out with guns drawn if some stranger was snapping pics on their property...

Still, prove who took the pics. Just because it's my camera, doesn't mean that I took the pics and doesn't mean that I was on your property.

When you are in my business you've heard all the excuses.

mac 'these aren't my pants either' gyvr
 
Re: Re: Important

Still, prove who took the pics. Just because it's my camera, doesn't mean that I took the pics and doesn't mean that I was on your property.

When you are in my business you've heard all the excuses.

mac 'these aren't my pants either' gyvr
Lol...I'm sure you hear a lot of good ones. If the inspector has already been there then there is no reason for them to come forward to report what they saw, so the damage is done.
 
For the record, I'm not saying its right...in fact it's wrong all together...but when everyone screams sue them or have them arrested, I'm just letting folks know what they might be up against...

I have my own battles with the city and neighborhood code where I live...

mac 'even behind my privacy fence' gyvr
 
It should be faster now...

52f6065adcc1146ac1302c0241328fd6.jpg


Fore 'race the truck!' Wheeler
 
At this particular juncture we're just hoping for an extension to clean up what they took issue with. My biggest fear is that they're going to deny an extension and start fining the living crap out of us. We're just going to have to deal with what we can and go from there. Our inspector at least seems like she wants to go to bat for us. She seems irritated to be in this position and I can't blame her. Overall, this just sucks.
 
You said it... It's a design series first. That's the problem! It's not fair to the smaller schools that can't afford to build their entire car out of titanium and carbon fiber. It's like trying to win a magazines supercar of the year with a Fiero.

The teams placing in formula year after year had budgets of 500k. When a formula team with a budget of 20k ranks top 3 I'll listen.

You're comparing ultra4 to something that's meant to be a learning experience...


You don't have to win to benefit from the learning experience. The design process from start to finish is still the process, it doesn't matter if you spend 100$ and build it out of wood....
 
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