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Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard)

If you get the Afe header I will be interested in your opinion of it.

I like my Borla, but that header is no longer available, so I am going to eventually need to find another design to like. That Afe sounds like it has potential.

BTW, that link shows it as being sold out, so I hope it has not gone the direction of the Borla.
 
If you get the Afe header I will be interested in your opinion of it....

BTW, that link shows it as being sold out, so I hope it has not gone the direction of the Borla.

Sold out to me! :angel: It should be here on Wednesday. For what it's worth the actual cheapest price I found was through these guys: https://mbenzgram.com/products/afe-...-jeep-wrangler-l6-4-0l?variant=36092549922971

MBenz had it for $655 plus a site wide 10% discount going and it should have been free shipping to Hawaii, even threw the header into the cart to be sure. That said, no one was picking up the phone when I called so I couldn't verify whether they had it in hand or were authorized dealers or not. I debated trying to do a Summit Racing price match, but Summit wants to drop ship from AFE and AFE wasn't picking up the phone either. I have family coming to visit in 10 days and I needed my jeep back on the road fast so I went with bird in hand and just did it.

Feels nice when the debate is done and you're moving forward.
-Joel

PS I have no relative motion of my existing MORE motor mounts when torqued against the brakes so I'm gonna leave those alone and keep an eye on them. Video of the test (boring but fairly illustrative).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4WeKi-DOSE
 
I'd add Doug Thorley to the premium headers. I have one installed, another for my next build. I hear they do not flow as well and the Banks. Still. Also, mine are ceramic coated. I also have Bronn Dogs. I like them. Also, one s to look at are Stinky Fab and Ironman 4X4. I also have a BBK header for a 2000 TJ or XJ. It was cracked and I had it rewelded. They guy who did the welding didn't like the factory welds.

Thanks for the comments. I think my MORE mounts are okay, but if I ever need someone else, I think Stinkfab is a pretty rad company so good to know they're doing mounts too.

I can't comment on flow for Banks vs. Thorley since the designs are so different. I ruled out the Doug Thorley's early for other reasons... Mostly they looked like paying top shelf money for an odd take on the most common ATP layout.

318-thy-634y-cjpg.jpg


The #1 runner appears to be excessively long and 3 and 4 seem to be excessively short. It uses the same basic stamped collector quite a few cheaper options run. The nail in coffin for me was when I ran across a few horror stories with unfulfilled warranty claims.

The good news on the Thorley is that if the welding is quality that should always justify some premium. Ceramic coating should help keep underhood temps down. However, at the end of the day these are just a hair below the AFE's which had more of what I care about. I wanted mine bare SS for ease of repair should that be needed. Since I shouldn't have overlooked them in writing up my list here's the info:

http://www.dougthorleyheaders.com/h...--grand-cherokee-4.0l-h-o-tri-y-headers_15717
 
First off, Thank you for the solid thread that likely helps out more people than you will ever know. Most people get the info they need and move on with out any thanks (guilty, takes one to know one right?). And 2nd this gave me solid reading during the beginning stages of this mess when work was slow, so thank you for the entertainment as well.

On to the reason for the post-
That cleanup on the roof looks so much better! My hood and roof are in bad need of getting re-sprayed. I hate how shabby my already tired xj looks with peeling coats... Did you put color on also at the same time or did you just sand and clear coat? any tips for issues you ran into along the way? what kind of sprays did you use? Thnaks in advance - Kylan
 
First off, Thank you for the solid thread
...
That cleanup on the roof looks so much better! My hood and roof are in bad need of getting re-sprayed. I hate how shabby my already tired xj looks with peeling coats... Did you put color on also at the same time or did you just sand and clear coat? any tips for issues you ran into along the way? what kind of sprays did you use? Thnaks in advance - Kylan

Very welcome, of course. I actually find that writing this stuff down helps me remember what the hell I did later when it's time for the next project and I did the research for this one.

Paint. For starters, nothing beats two part automotive paint. Primer, base color, clear... with a good clean and scuff to the paint below, while using a single paint system to ensure compatibility... that's always going to be the best route and pretty much the cheapest two part paints are likely to perform better than the best of the spray paints.

My "go simple" approach was surface prep, color and clear spray paint. You probably want the color coat since it'll be hard to blend otherwise.

I personally think the Rustoleum Automotive Engine enamels are about as good as I've found.
https://smile.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-248936-Automotive-12-Ounce-Degree/dp/B002JG01VQ/

Duplicolor sells something similar but with a wider range of colors
https://smile.amazon.com/Dupli-Color-EDE161307-Ceramic-Gloss-Engine/dp/B000B68V90/

I've also seen some of these at my local hardware stores (Home Depot etc) albeit never with the full selection Amazon has. The glosses are fairly shiny but doing a clear coat over the color will help it stay that way.

Some bits and pieces that I've learned the hard way over the years.

1) Stick within a single paint system whenever you can.
2) Pay attention to re-coat timing windows. You generally have a short window when you first shoot the next layer of something or else you need to wait longer for it to be more dry to shoot later. Middle dry is the risk stage so the "I'm tired, I'll get the next coat in the morning" approach almost always goes bad.
3) Prep matters. Expert opinions vary, but I suggest you want to be sanded to at least 220 grit, and everything needs a wipe down with a lint free cloth and denatured alcohol before you start.

Hope that helps!
-Joel
 
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Well, the Jeep is finally back up and running—pretty much the best it ever has--but damn it was a lot of work.

Coming up:
-Detailed AFE header review (cracked manifold replacement)
-Chasing exhaust leaks
-How to break a fuel hardline
-Further troubleshooting a code P0171
-Critical stuff I didn't know about 02 sensors
-PSC power steering upgrades
-How the PSC design violates their own design guidelines.
-WTF, why is it still leaking?
-Why you don't want to rebuild your own steering box (aka lessons learned the hard way)
-PSC big bore steering box install
-Hey, it runs good, let’s do suspension bushings too!
-Why the BDS long arm cross member is a crap design and where to look for structural failures (I got lucky)
-Why BDS's "no fine print warranty" has a hell of a line of fine print...
-What to do about a structural weld cracks in poorly designed cross member

I had it down for almost 2 months all in all... If you're down for some tales of commiseration and pain, including plenty of banging my head against the wall. Well, you’ve come to the right place.

No way I can get this all written out today but I might as well get started.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When pulling a header you get to pull the power steering and full intake manifold. This was a fairly entertaining youtube guide that helped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiJRscE_8uM

Pulling the airbox is optional but you might as well and figuring out which way you’re giving that header a reach around is easier with more space.

XJHeader1.jpg



Not shown, pressure wash your bay before you start. You can pretty much tell exactly what I could get to or not… I was going to regrease all my electrical fittings so I sprayed it down harder than I might otherwise and it still leaves a film on everything.

There’s the patient.

XJHeader2.jpg



Yep, new hotness looks like what it’s supposed to.

XJHeader3.jpg



With the header out I can finally start making comparisons.

XJHeader4.jpg



But first let’s look at the damages… The biggest crack I found via lighted mirror a few posts above. The other 3 locations that were cracking I couldn’t see via mirror but woah, this was on its way out.

XJHeader5.jpg


XJHeader6.jpg


XJHeader7.jpg


XJHeader8.jpg


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Gotta do something. This thing is PIG rich so I’m not driving until it’s solved.

XJHeader10.jpg



More to come,
-Joel
 
Looking forward to the upcoming details.

I appreciate your effort in showing what you find. You do a good job.
 
Thanks Anak... I partly do the write ups to entertain myself, but I know when I'm researching parts buying myself, writeups and practical experiences from others are gold so I try to pay it forward.

First impressions on the AFE Twisted Steel Header (PN 48-46201)

XJHeader11b.jpg



It’s nice. I kinda feel like it’s a scenario where you get what you pay for. It’s not cheap but you can tell why it cost more. It’s not perfect, but it does a great deal more right than wrong. I talked about some of my research on headers and why I picked up this version back here:

https://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246730744&postcount=537

At a glance fit is close to what I before (not stock though as the prior owner changed it)

XJHeader11.jpg



Welding is very nice, but not exceptional. You can tell it was done by a human rather than robotic perfection. The important bit is that everything is consistent. There are no holes and welds still look very nice even in some really hard to get to areas like the middles of the 2 merges.

XJHeader11c.jpg


XJHeader12.jpg



Proper merges are probably the biggest selling point on this header vs. something like the Bank Revolver (my second choice). The Banks certainly isn’t bad, just this should off better performing merges with more consistent/longer primaries. I have no dyno data to back that up assertion but I am an engineer who’s been geeking out on exhaust design for a few years now. For anyone who wants to get into the theory, I did a bigger write up on exhaust design over here:

https://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=246730884&postcount=44

Where pipes step up in sizes there are some very minor lips on the interior (they’re nestling smaller into bigger), but all the lips point in the direction of flow and there is no “sugaring” so clearly these were back purged when welding… Chalk another one up on the “doing it right” score.

XJHeader13.jpg


XJHeader14.jpg



One happy surprise. All 6 ports are cleaned up/port matched on the ID. I didn’t know AFE was doing that and it really makes for clean ports.

XJHeader14b.jpg


XJHeader15.jpg



Compare to the ones I’m pulling off and you can see that massive weld blobs that burned through and are clogging the port.

XJHeader16.jpg



A couple more subtleties to be aware of. In changing the curvature of the primaries in the name of flow, a few bolts become harder to get to. Still doable but a little harder.

XJHeader16b.jpg


XJHeader17.jpg



I ended up torqueing accessible bolts and then calibrating my “feel” to try to get it the torque similar on the hard to reach bolts. I’m not sure there’s a way to torque this otherwise.

One of the few details I found that struck my as “this is dumb” was the flange profile on the cylinders #1 and #6. The flange curves away from the bolt location instead of towards it like my stock version. You can see where the edge of the bolt picks up the former header.

XJHeader18.jpg



No clear reason that I could tell, but it still torqued down fine. Maybe putting more pressure closer to the port? I dunno.

Hole sizes for the complete holes are bigger than they need to be but a bit of float isn’t a bad thing (mostly, more on this later).

XJHeader19.jpg



Last but not least, the header flange is nice and flat, so it had some combination of good fixturing and post decking...

XJHeader20.jpg


:eeks1:


So far so good!
-Joel
 
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Thanks for the info. I was looking at port designs etc. I came across some header info from F1 headers. They step up the pipe 10mm or two 5mm. This creates an anti reversion cone. Now they are running 20K+ RPM. And thanks for noting the ability or not to access the header bolts. I had this issue with the JBA 2000+ header on one bolt. I had a lot of fun getting bolts into the thread hole. One was near luck, and my shoulder felt it. I was using the tips of my fingers.
 
Thanks for the info. I was looking at port designs etc. I came across some header info from F1 headers. They step up the pipe 10mm or two 5mm. This creates an anti reversion cone. Now they are running 20K+ RPM.

Reflected pulse wave tuning is the other reason for intentional changes in cross sections. It makes the most difference in long tube headers when you can take advantage of valve overlap. Long tubes would be hard for us to package though, you'd need primaries 40+ inches long. If you're into this stuff you should check out the exhaust theory link above.

Bolts were doable but a ratcheting gear wrench helped and some were awkward. That actually brings me to:


Header Install Time…

I tried hard to screw this up. I didn’t but I tried hard.

Bare block… Making me appreciate how that fine layer of Hawaiian mud really does get everywhere.

XJHeader21.jpg



AFE’s come with a nice branded Fel-Pro gasket for the head and a crush metal gasket for the merge.

XJHeader22.jpg



AFE’s instructions. No mention on torque so that sucks... For the record, the combo intake/exhaust bolts are 24 ft-lbs with a specific pattern from middle outward. Some sources claim the nuts are 23 ft-lbs and use of anti-seize should lower the torque required some as well. However, since you can’t get a torque wrench on half this stuff anyways, I don't think it much matters.

XJHeader23.JPG



Old gasket is nasty.

XJHeader24.jpg



After scrapping/light sanding, the rusty spots on the head got smeared with anti-seize before reassembly.

XJHeader25.jpg



Couple studs decided their nuts would seize so these got loosened/reworked on the bench vise.

XJHeader26.jpg



Gasket looks perfect. Nice couple pins to locate that.

XJHeader27.jpg



Header landing pretty good.

XJHeader28.jpg



But on the bottom side it’s almost touching the pan. I can’t tell you how this compares to stock since the manifold I’m replacing isn’t factory. That said, the old part was probably 1/2” - 5/8” clear and this isn’t. I liked the clearance better so it’s one of the few things AFE should do better (or at least reverify vs. stock). This kinda sucks as it messed up my exhaust clearance and I’m rubbing the pan. I wrapped it in about 6 layers of header wrap and I’ll re-optimize the fit later.

XJHeader29.jpg



Since I’m unlikely to have things this far apart any time soon I pressure washed the heck outta the intake manifold…

XJHeader30.jpg


XJHeader31.jpg



Install seemed to go fine. Stuff kinda lands where it wants to land, everything torqued well. But then I’m looking at the alignment of the power steering bracketry and it seems like the manifold is low (bolt sitting at an angle)

XJHeader32.jpg



Take a closer inspection and part of a port is showing. WTF? Note, you can see the copper anti-seize used on all bolts peaking out a bit.

XJHeader33.jpg



It’s late and I’m mad at this thing so I call it a night and throw a couple pictures on the SoCal XJ forum on Facebook asking for details on how this is supposed to land.

Kind souls (including a few names I recognize from here) let me know that those gasket alignment pins are actually supposed to align the intake manifold as well. Boo.

Double boo? If you torque the mani without this being aligned you can snap off the alignment provision on the manifold. Well, that's scary…

I did mention that I tried to screw this up right?

Well, I still got lucky and nothing failed… After yanking this apart again you can where it tried to land in some slight marks on the gasket.

XJHeader34.jpg


Thankfully it’s just marks and there’s no obvious depressions and damage to the gasket so that should be fine. You can see exactly how far I was off on the mating bung.

XJHeader35.jpg



Buy the way, who the hell designs an alignment pin to have a 1/16” engagement? The protrusion through the gasket ain’t much and the feature on manifold is offset… Thanks Chrysler. I’m loving you guys right now.

XJHeader36.jpg



Anyways, it goes back together fine on the second try. One think I did that turned out to be both good and bad was pre-installing some of the lower hardware so I could slide the intake mani down in place. The technique was good, but having it be a bit snug probably had it bite the pin protruding on my first try hence why it felt like it was home when it wasn’t.

Good to go right?

Wrong.


…and more to come,
Joel
 
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Looking good.
Hows she purr

Now? Damn nice.

At this point in the story? Like a farting wildebeest with the runs... (A.K.A. ABSOLUTE SH--).


Header's in, install looks good, so why does it still run like poo?

I drove it to a friend’s house maybe 10 miles away and it was coughin and stumbling the entire way. Looking at the fuel gauge my best guess was that I was burned 4-5 gallons on the drive. Still throwing the P0171 code. Still puking soot on the ground.

I figured maybe the crush gasket at the merge hadn’t formed all the way so I torqued the hell outta that. No change. The symptoms are the exact same as before and a significant exhaust leak is an easy an obvious explanation for that, so what the hell is leaking now?

I go poking around. I’m on the alignment pins. Everything looks flat and torqued nice, put a little extra on the mani bolts just to be sure. What is this?

I start shining my lighted mirror into every nook and cranny I can find and finally... I spot it. The #6 header primary is touching the intake manifold.

Remember this pic? See the difference in profile on #6?

XJHeader11.jpg



Ahh, now I know why some sources listed this header for the 91 to 98 XJ while some sources say 91-99. Turns out the 99 intake manifold had a slight profile change and mine just barely touched.

-Not enough to keep it from landing.

-Not enough to keep it from looking like the intake manifold was sitting flat.

-But enough to give me an leak that would explain my perpetual running terrible motor? You betcha.

So I mark the tight point with sharpie as best I can and pull this apart AGAIN. Hey look! I see a rub mark!

XJHeader37.jpg



Kiss the intake mani with a file (probably less than 1/32” I’m not risking breaking through!)

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Tap on the end of a mini sledge to put a baby dimple into the #6 primary.

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Time to button it up for the 3rd time.

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Kinda interesting how stainless shifts to brown after it’s been hot, but this is typical and it won’t change much from here.

Surely it’s good to go now right?

WRONG.

In hindsight, the barely there contact above may not have been an issue. You can see that I did in fact have full gasket contact all around in the last pic above. Oh well, I have a 1/16" clear now. Do I feel bad about putting a dimple in a brand new header? Kinda but not really. I'm about performance and the motortrend crew proved it was no big deal. Brilliant video here if you haven't see it.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0

But now I am scratching my head at what's wrong...

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I like wrenching on cars, because there can be some serious adversity between the effort and the payoff. This is one of those stories.

-Joel
 
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By the way, the reason my jeep was still running like hell and potentially the critical detail that I missed was already shown in one of the pics from the last few posts above.

Can you spot it? :bawl:

-Joel
 
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It's got to be a bad fit from AFE, my '91-99 Banks header on my 2000 fit perfectly!
P1090068.JPG

P1090077.JPG
 
Nope. Not the header's fault. Banks was my second choice but I'm not a fan of their merge. I think you said your builder spec'ed it for your rig yeah?

Beautiful coating work, BTW. Are you up and running yet? Curious on whether you can tell a difference on heat management. So far I'm planning on leaving mine bare in case I need to weld something up.
 
By the way, the reason my jeep was still running like hell and potentially the critical detail that I missed was already shown in one of the pics from the last few posts above. Can you spot it? :bawl:-Joel

Is this it?
XJHeader33.jpg
 
Is this it?
...

Negative. Solved that before even trying to run. I've been tinkering with cars for 25 years and I learned something I outright never knew. You want the answer or is the story worth waiting for? There's more. :)

I'm super jealous you have resources like Russ to lean on. There's nothing like that on the Big Island. I have about 210k on the clock but I like this rig enough that I'd be tempted to get a stroker sent over on a pallet if the engine ever lets go.

-Joel
 
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By the way, the reason my jeep was still running like hell and potentially the critical detail that I missed was already shown in one of the pics from the last few posts above.

Can you spot it? :bawl:

-Joel

Guessing it’s the fuel line since you eluded to it earlier or your injector harness since it’s electrical taped?
 
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