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Best track bar frame mount?

Goatman

NAXJA Forum User
NAXJA Member
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I have always thought that the factory track bar frame mount was the stoutest, but since mine has cracked badly, I need to replace it with something else. I know Rusty and Rubicon Express make them, does anyone else? I've seen both of these and the stock part break, and so I still plan to beef up whatever I get. Just wondering what else might be out there that I haven't seen, and if there are any significant experinces with the strength of this particular part. I'm not interested in any bashing.....I've seen parts from nearly every manufacturer fail.....just looking for some more info before I decide what to buy.

My stock mount cracked due to metal fatigue, not at a seam or weld, on the rear side. I carefully welded up the crack inside and out, and eventually added a cross frame brace. Last week on the Dusy Trail, near the top of Thompson Hill, the mount cracked badly on both the front and rear sides and bent badly to the outside (no left turn ability). We were able to get it bent back and put a strong strap on it and I welded it up in camp that evening. The brace also broke, which doesn't say much for the design of my brace, and also opens a discussion of how a brace should be built and mounted. The metal on the mount is so fatigued that a new crack began below the other welded up crack (not on the edge of the weld) before I got back from my vacation.
 
Do you have any 1/4" or 3/8" stock laying around the shop? It looks like it would be easy enough to make one up for cheap, and at the same time you would then be able to set the track bar angle for your raised steering. I thought RE and Rusty's brackets were built with a bit of drop in them, but I've never really looked at them.
-Jon
 
I had the same thought. Why not make one up from scratch? You have the stock one to use as a guide in deciding where to make it beefier and/or otherwise braced. If nothing else it'd be an interesting experiment to see how well it would hold up relative to the stocker and existing aftermarket ones.
 
As always I cant say enough good things about the RE XD Trackbar and bracket!Everyone I wheel with has eventually gone this route.The bracket is very well made/sturdy and the new ones are already drilled for a brace.Ive had mine for about two years now with zero maintanance except to grease it.
 
I'm trying to get away from the stock mount, since I need to make a change. My old one was already modified to take a JJ horizontally, and the metal still fatigued and cracked in the stock section of the mount. I know I could add metal to the sides of the mount, sort of boxing in the edges of the formed steel, but my coil spring hits the outside of the mount so I'm looking for a mount that has more clearance. I'm becoming annoyed with the squeaking from the coils rubbing on things, and am looking for ways to get away from that (I know, coilovers, but I'm not ready for more fabbing at this time).

I don't want to make my own mount at this point, too little time with too many other things to do. I already have to grind the welds off of my current mount, since it's welded to the frame to keep it from moving around......finally welded the SOB after getting tired of continually tightening it and listening to it creak.

No matter which one I end up getting, it's going to get some additional bracing, and will get welded to the frame.
 
I like the ORGS piece that adds on to the stock mount, with a little beefing it'd be a good choice. I ended up making my own but that was to clear the hoops and hopefully be stronger than a stock one. If it causes me problems I'll whip one up out of 1/4" for the main body with a 3/16 pocket for the JJ.

Here's some pics of the mount:

rawbkt.jpg

bling.jpg

mounted.jpg


Too much beer causes weld boogers.....

:D
 
on the RE ones you saw break where did they break, just so I know a little bit better where to look?

I can't remember if you looked at my junk or not but It seems to be holding fine. but I have not put anywhere near the trail miles on it that you have/or do. but its an RE bracket, rustys steering box brace, and a homemade trackbar brace. fwiw I would not run a trackbar brace without a steering box brace.

RE would probably be the quickest easiest option, order from your favorite vendor and have it drop shipped. especially if you want to be rolling labor day weekend. I don't know how much their trackbar brace is but if its 40-50 or less it may not be worth fabricating. that being said they are easy to make, I also welded on a tab for a limiting strap, and they are nice to use with a highlift, you can wrap a strap around the TB brace and the axle to keep the wheel from drooping out.
 
Gary E said:
fwiw I would not run a trackbar brace without a steering box brace.


Why, may I ask? I didn't bother putting my steering box brace back on after I installed the ORGS SBS kit and I am running a trackbar brace.

Jes
 
Of course you may ask :)

I have not really done a finite element analysis of the front subframe of the xj, but I am mostly going off of Crashes last fordyce run.

I think in a stock XJ the front subrame flexes from the cowl to the front bumper, flexing more at the steering box and less towards the cowl. of course on the street and mild offroading the flex is minimal. With bigger tires and more difficult trails the subframe is put to and past its limit so we get cracks. If you have it solidly braced to the trackbar mount stress is moved instead of from the cowl to the steering box, to the trackbar brace to the steering box. The same amount of stress over a smaller area fatigues the metal much more leading to more cracks.

back to Andys rig, right after he put in the trackbar brace in he broke some spot welds or something cracked up near the end of the frame just past the steering box. (you would know better than I since you know his rig better) Also having a rigidly mounted bumper all the steering stress was placed inbetween the bumper and the trackbar brace. which is of course where the box and where a steering box brace would be.

Of course you having the orgs steering reinforcement kit which adds much needed reinforcement to the area. So its kind of a wildcard. Still in your shoes I would run the SB brace to spread the load more and be a backup. It seems that even with a broken bolt or some cracks the brace is more likely to hold it together to lessen damage and get off the trail or perhaps home.

This is my theory, and is a theory and not a law. Either leave it all to flex or ladder frame it to keep the flex out. By ladder frame I mean make it strong all the way, trackbar brace, SB brace, and real front bumper. I think all three are needed, as one or two of the components may just put the stress in smaller areas.

Richard, another thing to think about which you probably allready have is the clearance between your 44 and the drop put in the RE bracket, at about 6 inches of lift the trackbar brace would hit my Upper control arm where it bolts on to the axle.
 
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Ya, I get what you're saying.
Looking at my setup though, the only thing a steering box brace would do is to help keep the steering box mounting bolts from shearing off. There is no flex at my steering box so the end of the box(where the brace mounts) doesn't move at all in relation to the opposite "frame" rail.
I'll probably put it back on for the heck of it, when I find some time.

Jes
 
KarmirXJ said:
mount looks pretty good... think of going into business?:D

I'm now building everything in my 3d modeler first and then fabbing, talk about an improvement! Makes me wish I could build all my mounts over again, lol. Here's a sample of some of the new stuff.

http://www.rockxj.com/images/UCA_plated4.jpg

Thanks for the compliment. :D

ghettofablogo.jpg
 
I'm sure my current track bar mount hangs as low or lower than the RE mount will, so that shouldn't be a problem. Mine is the stock mount with a bracket added to the bottom so the JJ can be mounted horozontally, very similar to the ORGS design. The only difference is that mine is bolted through the stock mount and then welded. I don't have an upper arm on that side, so arm clearance isn't an issue.

The whole subject of track bar and steering box braces is far from being resolved. My goal is to make the whole structure as rigid as possible, but it will still flex. I've cracked the frame with and without braces, so don't have any definitive conclusions. I was surprised that the mount fatigued and cracked like it did with the brace, which leads me to believe that the design of the brace somehow contributed to the cracking. Unfortunately, it also cracked before the brace went on, so again, nothing conclusive.

I am going to change the design of the next brace. I think I'll use a rod end on the mount side and a poly bushing on the frame side, rather than making it all rigid like the last one was. This should allow some movement without increasing the stress to the track bar mount. I'm also running a steering box brace, and have a plate added to the inside of the frame, but have no firm opinion on that either. I did see a new crack in the outside of the frame next to the top steering box bolt, so the bumper needs to come off and and some additional repairs made to the outside of the frame. Sort of hard to do now, since my cage structure ties into the bumper from under the fenders......... :rolleyes:
 
Richard, get the SBS. It's well designed and worth the $$$$. I finally welded mine in last weekend. Do you think that a single poly bushing will have more 'give' in it then 2 Johnny Joints?
 
vintagespeed said:
Richard, get the SBS. It's well designed and worth the $$$$. I finally welded mine in last weekend. Do you think that a single poly bushing will have more 'give' in it then 2 Johnny Joints?

I can't use the SBS, I'm too far down the road with what I've already done. I have a nice plate formed to the inside of the frame, and the bottom of the frame is plated, and the bumper has one of the steering box bolts running through it. The new crack is a small, short one, from the top bolt hole to the small corner at the top. My bumper cannot be removed. Between the tubing attached to it and the fact that I welded the bumper mount to the frame to deal with another frame crack, it's not coming off. I think I'll fix the small crack, then add a small piece of plate to the top of the bumper mount and run the bolt through that plate. That will give me two out of three box bolts running through 1/4" plate, and I can include the 3rd one if I want to.

I don't want to mess with JJ's for a brace. I'd use the rod end for simplicity, and the bushing for some give. Both would allow a slight amount of movement as the frame twists. If I can satisfy myself that the track bar mount is beefy enough, I might not even use a brace. And, if I get the rest of the steering box bolts through the 1/4" bumper mount, I'll also remove the steering brace.

Damn, I'll never get that front bumper off so I can replace it with a lighter pre-runner style. :D
 
Hehe, I like that bumper! You want to use a pose-runner bumper instead of that nice beef you have there? Bah, there goes whatever little respect I had left for you. :D I was off a little about the JJs, I thought you were rebuilding the TB itself. I built my bracket with a slot for a crossbrace, and plan on building one but I was going to make it rigid. Not a good idea?
 
Evidently, it's not a good idea to make the brace rigid. Mine was rigid, and if it had worked properly there should have been no way that the mount would have cracked and fish-mouthed like it did. The brace should have held it in place and reduced the force against it. Instead, I can only assume that the brace increased the force against the mount, some evidence of which is that the mount cracked before the brace broke. The brace broke where I had designed that it would have a little give, and it broke because the mount was moving sideways and so the brace was having to bend a little.....it broke where it had to bend.

When I welded it back together, I also just welded the broken end of the brace back to the mount, figuring it couldn't hurt, and I'd keep my eye on it. After awhile, a new crack started in the mount (still in the section of the stock part) right above where I had welded the brace. Obviously, my track bar mount is so metal fatigued that there isn't a strong spot left on it, but it did show that the rigidly mounted brace puts too much force on the mount.......the opposite of what we're after. I was only driving mountain roads by this time, so I just put a strap on it and watched it, and it didn't crack any further.

So, I think a rigid mount from frame to frame might work, like a new crossmember, and then have a real strong track bar mount. Or, go ahead and attach it to the mount, but make the brace so it can pivot some, and/or have a little give in it like from a poly bushing. I also accept that metal can just fail after a long time of hard use, and mine has definitely had hard use over a long period of time. This rig has been wheeled on the Hammers, Rubicon, and everywhere else for about eight years now, and is always driven to the trail.....as far as Moab and CO.

So, I'm just demonstrating what all of the rest of you have to look forward too......... :eek: :D :D ;)
 
I was also considering making a crossmember separate from the TB brace that might alleviate some of the stress there. It makes sense that there would be alot of flexing between the front bumper mount & tranny crossbrace without anything inbetween. Would building a good crossmember under the motor area like a V8 has make an improvement?
 
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