building radius arms, need some help with the uppers

I'm swapping axles out and can't reuse my ext. Ford radius arms, so I plan on building my own. I've seen all the other manufacturer's Y-links/radius arm designs, but can't seem to find the answer to couple questions. Is there an optimun angle for the upper to meet the lower at? Can I run the upper to the frame and have the lower meet the upper?

The stock upper mounts are not nearly strong enough to use a sort of inverted mounting arrangement. If you could make strong enough mounts on the frame side, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Sorry, I should have said what I'm rolling with here. Not running a d30, I've got an hpd44 right now and am swapping a d50 in the front now.
Here's another question I came up with last night: I plan on using 2x2x.25 square tube, but 2x2 seems kind of small, would it be overkill to sleeve the 2x2x.25 with 2.5x2.5x.25?

whitneyj said:

Sorry, I should have said what I'm rolling with here. Not running a d30, I've got an hpd44 right now and am swapping a d50 in the front now.
Here's another question I came up with last night: I plan on using 2x2x.25 square tube, but 2x2 seems kind of small, would it be overkill to sleeve the 2x2x.25 with 2.5x2.5x.25?

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I have seen a few customs suspension around here made of 2x2 .25"wall
I don't think you'll run into problems running that, many of the ones around here look like they have doubled as skids a few times too, all good.

ok, so sleeving it with 2.5x2.5x.25 would be overkill?

I think you will be fine with 2x2. Sleeving it will make it way to big and bulky. If your really worried about it then maybe put some 1.5x1.5 inside. But most people just run the 2x2 tubing.

The 1/4 wall tubing is plenty strong. Does the D50 mount differently than a D30? Pics would be cool.

the d50 is very different from the d30. The d50 I have was under a 99-00 F-250 superduty with front leaves. It's going to be difficult to figure out how to get that thing under there well. . .
I'll get some pics with my ideas tomorrow

I have heard some rugged comments about those Dana 50ś. See http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413331&highlight=sd+dana+50 and quite a few other D50 comments. They are a unit bearing axle like the D30 and the word is that they do not stand up to anything larger than 35ś unless you do some very pricey fixes on them that make them more expensive than a HP60. Didn't you build a nice HP44 for your truck?

REVROK said:

I have heard some rugged comments about those Dana 50ś. See http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413331&highlight=sd+dana+50 and quite a few other D50 comments. They are a unit bearing axle like the D30 and the word is that they do not stand up to anything larger than 35ś unless you do some very pricey fixes on them that make them more expensive than a HP60. Didn't you build a nice HP44 for your truck?

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I've definitely read nothing but not great comments about the d50, but I really couldn't pass up the deal I got on the axle. It is a unit bearing, but I do have manual lockouts-I haven't taken them apart yet, but the bearing assembly is supposed to be separate from the hubs. The big weak point on the d50 are the inner shafts. They go from 1.5 to 1.3,30 spline-same as my d44. I'm planning on running 38's, which coupled with my sissy right foot should hold up ok. My long term plans, are when the d50's r&p give up the ghost, I'll either swap in my extra hpd44 housing, or a 9" center section.

I do have a pretty awesome hpd44 under the XJ now. (1/2" axle tubes, welded on wedges) I originally wanted to go 35 spline rear,5.13 spooled, top and back trussed 9", 33 spline, 5.13 spooled, trussed hpd44. But for way way less than what it would have cost to build that, I got the d50/10.5 geared at 5.38, rear has a detriot and front has a lunch box locker. The 10.5 only has 3/4" less ground clearance than my non-shaved 9" and is in a totally different ballgame as far as strength-10.25" ring gear, FF 35 spline shafts, ect. And we all know the d50's downfall-R&P and inner shafts. So I may have a bastard axle, but I still feel that I made the right choice.

whitneyj said:

I've definitely read nothing but not great comments about the d50, but I really couldn't pass up the deal I got on the axle. It is a unit bearing, but I do have manual lockouts-I haven't taken them apart yet, but the bearing assembly is supposed to be separate from the hubs. The big weak point on the d50 are the inner shafts. They go from 1.5 to 1.3,30 spline-same as my d44. I'm planning on running 38's, which coupled with my sissy right foot should hold up ok. My long term plans, are when the d50's r&p give up the ghost, I'll either swap in my extra hpd44 housing, or a 9" center section.

I do have a pretty awesome hpd44 under the XJ now. (1/2" axle tubes, welded on wedges) I originally wanted to go 35 spline rear,5.13 spooled, top and back trussed 9", 33 spline, 5.13 spooled, trussed hpd44. But for way way less than what it would have cost to build that, I got the d50/10.5 geared at 5.38, rear has a detriot and front has a lunch box locker. The 10.5 only has 3/4" less ground clearance than my non-shaved 9" and is in a totally different ballgame as far as strength-10.25" ring gear, FF 35 spline shafts, ect. And we all know the d50's downfall-R&P and inner shafts. So I may have a bastard axle, but I still feel that I made the right choice.

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Well, the 10.25 is certainly a deal and anytime you can bring up strength for less it is a plus. Are the inner C's the same as a 60 on that D50? If they are and you swap the center section for a 9" and a true hi 9 third later you could end up with a real sweet axle combo.

Yup, that's what I was thinking. I'm just having a really hard time with trying to figure out how to mount everything on the DS. The housing is right where I need to put the coil bucket. I think I've got everything figured out for the radius arms. Bushings on the axle mounts with a heim where the upper meets the lower. I'll be triangulating the the lowers to meet right before the tcase, and hopefully won't have an issue with clearing the pinion or housing.

Got any pics of it?

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=998808
Here's the link in advanced fab about the issues I'm having with the radius arm placement

I understood that most of the Ford Dana center sections are cast steel, which can be welded. You should be able to cut and grind away the perch as needed... my only concern is how far the tube goes. I would definitely get more advice than mine... though the fact that Richard (Goatman) thinks you can makes me feel better about that answer!

I definitely appreciate any and all advice giving by Goatman.
I think I may have figured out what I'm doing. I still need to measure everything to see if it'll be work a compromise, but it looks like I'll be trussing the axle from inner C to inner C and notching the truss to burn some coil buckets there. I'll get some pictures with what I'm thinking tomorrow hopefully.

Buy an ARB and have the side gears EDMed to 35 spline, then slip in OEM Ford 35 spline SupDuty inners for a cheap strong axle. Or have your lunch ox unit EDMed to 35 spline for an even lower buck fix.

Don't forget a verysubstantial shave job on the 50 center to better accomodate the 8.5" ring. There is a TON of room to shave.

CRASH said:

Buy an ARB and have the side gears EDMed to 35 spline, then slip in OEM Ford 35 spline SupDuty inners for a cheap strong axle. Or have your lunch ox unit EDMed to 35 spline for an even lower buck fix.

Don't forget a verysubstantial shave job on the 50 center to better accomodate the 8.5" ring. There is a TON of room to shave.

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Which superduty shafts have 35 spline? The f350 with the d60? I'll definitely look into doing that in the near future, I couldn't believe how much the shafts neck down right at the carrier.
I'm a little leary of shaving an axle, I've never welded to cast steel before. I understand that I need to pre-heat it to approx. 500*F, weld small sections so it doesn't get to hot, and let it slowly cool. Or is that only for cast iron? How do you let it slowly cool?

that is only cast iron. but it is rarely a bad idea to preheat any steel before welding it.

whitneyj said:

Which superduty shafts have 35 spline? The f350 with the d60? I'll definitely look into doing that in the near future, I couldn't believe how much the shafts neck down right at the carrier.
I'm a little leary of shaving an axle, I've never welded to cast steel before. I understand that I need to pre-heat it to approx. 500*F, weld small sections so it doesn't get to hot, and let it slowly cool. Or is that only for cast iron? How do you let it slowly cool?

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Yes, comparable year F-350's will have 35 spline shafts of equal length to your D-50 shafts.

Plating a center is not bad, I've done it with a MIG, but I do get better results with a high nickel content rod in a good old buzz box.