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Here it comes!!

I like how he is just moving on from one unsolved problem and creating another even bigger problem....
 
I like how he is just moving on from one unsolved problem and creating another even bigger problem....

Yep and the fear mongering is mind boggling. The bigger they make this "economic crisis" appear the more willing the American people are to go along with whatever he says. OF course everything he is doing will "fix" everything.
 
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.
 
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.

Depends, if they open it up to the 25 million illegals, which they will and you know they will, you better get set for a whole new scale of deductions coming out of your paycheck.
 
Depends, if they open it up to the 25 million illegals, which they will and you know they will, you better get set for a whole new scale of deductions coming out of your paycheck.

And mine as well. :mad:
 
And thats just counting the illegals that are here now. What about when they really start coming over once they get something else free.
 
We already have a nationalized health care system. Every hospital across the country is required to see every patient that comes through the door, illegal or citizen, insured or uninsured. Unfortunately this is bogging down our healthcare system and is infinitely more expensive than preventive care.
 
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.

I'm afraid of nationalized health care because of cost. Look at the countries that have it. They are taxed around 50-60%. I don't want that. I will be affected by it. My insurance through my job is set up through a health spending account. The most money I can spend in a year is $1000. That's a shit load less than I will be spending with nationalized health care.

Most importantly show me one thing that was private that the Government has taken over and made it better?
 
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.


Here's a start....removal of personal freedom. How about ignoring the Constitutional process and failure to accurately represent the Will of the People?

A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs

A combination of excessive bureaucracy and low reimbursement under current government-run health care programs like Medicare and Medicaid is causing an increasing number of physicians to refuse to participate in those programs. According to the American Academy of Family Physicians, 17 percent of family doctors refuse to take new Medicare patients. A 2006 report from the Center for Studying Health System Change found that nearly half of all doctors polled said they had stopped accepting or limited the number of new Medicaid patients.

You could lose access to the latest drugs and medical advancements. The U.S. has long led the world in medical and pharmaceutical research. Of all the new drugs introduced world wide over the past 30 years, more than half were patented in the U.S. And 80 percent of non-pharmaceutical medical innovations, like MRIs and transplants, were first introduced in this country. But national health care would impose price controls and practice guidelines that would significantly reduce research and development.

A study by the Manhattan Institute suggests that imposing price controls on prescription drugs, for example, would reduce research and development spending by $373 billion, eventually resulting in the loss of 277 million life years.

And, of course, higher taxes. Estimates for the cost of a new national health care program run from $65 billion to $600 billion per year. While this may not sound like much in an era of $700 billion bailouts, it is still money that would ultimately come out of the pockets of hard-working men and women. Nor should we forget that such projections almost always underestimate the cost of those programs. When Medicare started back in 1965, the government thought it might cost as much as $9 billion by 1990. The actual cost that year: $65 billion.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9886



California is perfect example of a state that I don't want to exist in.
California is where our politicians are trying to take our country, they've taxed, restricted, fee'd and protected themselves into insolvency.....who bails us out then?

Boat, please explain in detail, why a nationalized healthcare plan will be better for me, a middle-aged (40-'s) tax paying US Citizen, will not limit or reduce my access to quality healthcare, access to new treatments or increase my taxes.
 
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Here's a start....removal of personal freedom. How about ignoring the Constitutional process and failure to accurately represent the Will of Some Ofthe People?

Boat, please explain in detail, why a nationalized healthcare plan will be better for me,
It's not about you or me, it's about the health of the country

will not limit or reduce my access to quality healthcare,
Your access (and mine too) is already reduced because of over crowded emergency rooms. Last year I took my mother who had a severe gash on her leg to an emergency room on a Sunday for care. She is 80. I had her sit in the car until the facility was ready to recieve her, didn't want her exposed to all the people who were there with colds and flu like symptoms becuase they didn't have insurance to go to a doctor, other than an emergency room. National Health Care would allow these un-insured people to use preventative health care and alternatives to hospital emergency rooms. Hospitals and Healthcare Centers that must treat these people need to get paid some how, so pass the costs on to treatments paid by those insured, and that drives up rates of Health Insurance. So you and me that have either self purchased or employer provided group health insurance plans pay higher premiums.

access to new treatments
access would only be limited to what your current policy states now, or would you drop your current plan and get onboard the National Plan?

or increase my taxes. It may increase your taxes, but should lower your premiums as the charges to your insurance company would be less. In the end YOU AND ME will be paying one way or the other. Higher premiums or higher taxes. A wash? Not necessarily....better access to Preventative Medicine reduces overall medical costs
 
We already have a nationalized health care system. Every hospital across the country is required to see every patient that comes through the door, illegal or citizen, insured or uninsured. Unfortunately this is bogging down our healthcare system and is infinitely more expensive than preventive care.

Thats only partially true; Yes they are required to treat a patient, but if the hospital is a private hospital they are only required to stabilize the patient so they can be moved to a city hospital.
 
...better access to Preventative Medicine reduces overall medical costs.

That is true but a nationalized health system is going to be about preventative, its going to all be about reactive.

If a dentist gets paid $25 to drill a cavity and $25 to pull a dead tooth, which do you think they are going to do? Drill which is time consuming and more difficult. Or, pull the tooth, numb it up and yank.

If everyone wants to see what what a socialized medicine is like come and check out an Army hospital. See what its like to wait 2 months to try and get an appointment with an allergist, have your wife not seen by an OB till she is already 8 weeks pregnant.
Here is a good one, my wife has some skin issues. The hospital took a sample of her skin and sent it to a dermitologist in San Antonio, I'm in El Paso, because the hospital here doesn't have one. So she never got to see a doctor, she just got to read what he wrote in a report.
 
Thats only partially true; Yes they are required to treat a patient, but if the hospital is a private hospital they are only required to stabilize the patient so they can be moved to a city hospital...and treated there.
 
That is true but a nationalized health system is going to be about preventative, its going to all be about reactive.

If a dentist gets paid $25 to drill a cavity and $25 to pull a dead tooth, which do you think they are going to do? Drill which is time consuming and more difficult. Or, pull the tooth, numb it up and yank.

If everyone wants to see what what a socialized medicine is like come and check out an Army hospital. See what its like to wait 2 months to try and get an appointment with an allergist, have your wife not seen by an OB till she is already 8 weeks pregnant.
Here is a good one, my wife has some skin issues. The hospital took a sample of her skin and sent it to a dermitologist in San Antonio, I'm in El Paso, because the hospital here doesn't have one. So she never got to see a doctor, she just got to read what he wrote in a report.

That does not surprise me, many doctors have moved out of the southwest because of the illegal problems, just as many doctors here in Pa have moved out of the state to NJ and NY, mostly upstate NY because of the incredibly expensive malpractice insurance here. My wifes Neurosurgeon moved from Easton Pa to Syracuse NY, result is he saved $80,000 a year in insurance.
As far as govt taxed national health care, hmmm, which would I prefer, a federal tax that they can and will raise year after year or private health care that I can shop around for. Boy that sure is a tough one isn't it.
 
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.

Do some research, talk to a Canadian who has it.
Not a liberal Canadian, but your average citizen in a small to medium sized town.
you will fast learn the down falls of a Nat'l Health Plan.
I spent six month in Ear Falls, Ont. If one of them were sick and needed to see a... heart, lung, ear nose and throat, oncologist, whatever doctor, they would take a trip to Duluth or Fargo and, "get sick" otherwise the wait was four or five months, that was just to see the local saw bones, he would then refer you to a "specialist" in Winnipeg. You could see him in 18 to 20 months, but chances are you would be dead or incurable by then....

You can take you SOCIALIST health care and shove it up your ass!

The city of Madison, Wi has more MRI machines than the province of British Columbia.
 
If everyone wants to see what what a socialized medicine is like come and check out an Army hospital.

Never experienced an Army hospital. Been to Balboa Naval, former Oak Knoll Naval & former San Francisco USPHS hospitals only. Last procedure I had for a skin melenoma (sic) was farmed out through Tri-Care. Folks here also go to Travis, AFB and have good things to say...must just be the Army.

Kaiser Permamente used to be very close to socialized medicine.
 
Never experienced an Army hospital. Been to Balboa Naval, former Oak Knoll Naval & former San Francisco USPHS hospitals only. Last procedure I had for a skin melenoma (sic) was farmed out through Tri-Care. Folks here also go to Travis, AFB and have good things to say...must just be the Army.

Kaiser Permamente used to be very close to socialized medicine.

Yes, Army hospitals do leave a lot to be desired, Navy and AF are much better. The only good Army medical facilities are near DC or in areas where there are a very high percentage of retired General Officers, Ft Monmouth NJ was a perfect example, they kept the PX and commissary open because of that high density. The Army never has really taken good care of it's personnel, there are just too many of them, when you consider a Army heavy armoured division consists of 50,000 troops and support staff then add in family thats a small city.
 
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