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Open headers on my trailrig

XJ98Jeep

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Atlanta
I have a clogged cat so I just cut everything off from the cat back, when I took it for a test drive today whenever I let off the gas it would pop-popopopop-pop pop from the exhaust, alot like racecars do. Is this hurting my engine, or is this just what happens when you run without a muffler and cat?
And for the record, I live in FL so I don't need a cat, but I'm replacing it anyway, it's WAY too loud, and I don't like the smell.
 
i run without a cat and a flowmaster 40. replaced the cat with a piece of 2.5" pipe. APN header. i love the sound. not too obnoxious but performance like. best(not loudest) sound ive heard outta one of these motors. mine does the pop-ppop sound your talking about too. probably not as loud as yours with no muffler.

dont run with just open headers unless you wanna piss off the other trail riders and it will drive you crazy too.
 
How long has yours been doing the pop pop pop?

I'm planning an SBC 396 swap for this but I'd rather not have to rush it because I burnt my valves or something.
edit: Yeah I'm going to fix it ASAP, driving it was awful. I had to roll my windows up because it was so loud it hurt my ears. It sounds DAMN good at idle, and that's about it.
 
put a cat back on it please. Its just giving the enviro-nazi's another reason to make us look bad. Its not expensive to replace one and IMHO they sound better with a cat. It mellows out the tone a lot!

edit: I didn't read the part about you replacing the cat! :cheers:
 
put a cat back on it please. Its just giving the enviro-nazi's another reason to make us look bad. Its not expensive to replace one and IMHO they sound better with a cat. It mellows out the tone a lot!

That, and the cat functions as a spark arrestor so you don't set fires on the trail! You can get a "header cat" - a cat that just bolts onto the header - and have the correct flange welded onto your header so you can reduce it that way.

But please, don't just leave it off. The only time I've driven one of my rigs with an open header was because the rest of the exhaust was in the back, and I was taking it in to get it welded. Got it welded, put it on in the parking lot, and drove home.
 
I'd be more worried about burning up valves from losing the scavenging effect of the backpressure. Correct me if I'm wrong, (which is more often than I like :)), but the scavenging effect of the backpressure helps cool the exhaust valve.
 
I'd be more worried about burning up valves from losing the scavenging effect of the backpressure. Correct me if I'm wrong, (which is more often than I like :)), but the scavenging effect of the backpressure helps cool the exhaust valve.

The primary cooling of the valves takes place through the valve seat. You actually don't want the valve to be cooled too much - you could end up warping the valve head! Then, you're really boned...

That's why even racing cars (all-balls-out maximum-effort jobs in particular...) will run either open headers or individual pipes - to keep the valve from getting cooled off too quickly and warping. That's why you can get "header mufflers" and often "header cats" - because you're going to have to run something off of your exhaust port.

Backpressure actually runs counter to scavenging. "Scavenging" is the effects that remove exhaust gases from the combustion chamber, and encourage filling with the fuel/air intake mix. "Backpressure" refers to restrictions in the exhaust system that end up "creating" system pressure (changes in section, changes in flow direction, ...) and cause a mild reversion in exhaust gas flow. Backpressure is something you do not want, scavenging is something you want to encourage.

Scavenging can be increased (and backpressure minimised) by tuning the diameter of the exhaust tubing to minimise temperature variations in the exhaust pulses (there is a formula to determine optimax ID of the tubing, but I don't recall what it is offhand.) The optimax will give you maximum flow by both having enough internal cross-sectional area to accommodate effective flow of the pulse volume but not too much internal cross-sectional area to cause the outer edges to cool and cause internal turbulence in the exhaust pulse (which can also contribute to backpressure.)

I seem to want to recall the stable optimax pipe size for our 242ci engines being somewhere around 2-3/8" or so, meaning you can use either a 2-1/4" or 2-1/2" pipe with minimal ill effects.

Granted, the foregoing assumes you do not have a turbocharger in the system. If you do, the turbocharger uses most of the heat energy available in the exhaust gas pulse, and you just want to evacuate it as quickly as possible (since the exhaust turbine breaks up the "pulses" of exhaust gas anyhow.) This is why turbocharged vehicle exhaust systems tend to resemble mid-size Diesel exhausts, and why Diesel exhausts tend to be made with tubing with a 4-5" ID...

From where we'd end up wandering farther into theory than we probably want to do here...
 
I am sure 5-90 knows quite a bit and it sure sounds like it. I have seen a few older engines burn valves up from no restrictions in the exhaust system. Sounds like on newer engines they keep back pressure to prevent raw fuel from passing through the exhuast which i have heard can cause a burbling effect.
 
I am sure 5-90 knows quite a bit and it sure sounds like it. I have seen a few older engines burn valves up from no restrictions in the exhaust system. Sounds like on newer engines they keep back pressure to prevent raw fuel from passing through the exhuast which i have heard can cause a burbling effect.

That, and a slight amount of reversion is what allowed ChryCo to delete the EGR valve from the 242ci for 1991-up.

Not that the thing is needed anyhow. Per California's reports and California-specified test equipment, my RENIX rig ran cleaner without the thing than it does with - NOx was negligible (that's what the EGR is supposed to control,) with HC and CO being negligible as well. Replacing the EGR caused HC and CO to skyrocket, with no change in NOx output - so why do they force us to keep a part that just hangs around and craps up the intake with carbon?

(College isn't the only way to learn, either. I've been to college twice - and I've learned more out of college than I have in college...)
 
How long has yours been doing the pop pop pop?

I'm planning an SBC 396 swap for this but I'd rather not have to rush it because I burnt my valves or something.
edit: Yeah I'm going to fix it ASAP, driving it was awful. I had to roll my windows up because it was so loud it hurt my ears. It sounds DAMN good at idle, and that's about it.

mine only does the pop pop if its on neutral or park and i rev it fast and let up right away.
 
put a cat back on it please. Its just giving the enviro-nazi's another reason to make us look bad. Its not expensive to replace one and IMHO they sound better with a cat. It mellows out the tone a lot!

edit: I didn't read the part about you replacing the cat! :cheers:

the cat aint goin back on mine. i really like the sound with the FM40. not ricey at all. a XJ i bought one time had just a cat no muffler. that sounded ricey for real.
 
That, and the cat functions as a spark arrestor so you don't set fires on the trail! You can get a "header cat" - a cat that just bolts onto the header - and have the correct flange welded onto your header so you can reduce it that way.

The NFS accepts either a Spark Arrestor, OR and OEM type muffler.A turbo muffler is an example of this type of muffler, but not a glass pack because it does not trap sparks. I believe a SuperTrapp muffler also qualifies as a Spark Arrestor type muffler.

A Cat does not function as a spark arrestor, it can however, act as a fire starter. Because if it gets chunked, very hot embers are emitted by it. The muffler will trap those and keep them off the trail.
 
The NFS accepts either a Spark Arrestor, OR and OEM type muffler.A turbo muffler is an example of this type of muffler, but not a glass pack because it does not trap sparks. I believe a SuperTrapp muffler also qualifies as a Spark Arrestor type muffler.

A Cat does not function as a spark arrestor, it can however, act as a fire starter. Because if it gets chunked, very hot embers are emitted by it. The muffler will trap those and keep them off the trail.

Thank you - my misunderstanding. I'd thought the new monolithic matrix converters would have been accepted as spark arrestors as well.

I know a glass-pack (or any other "straight-through") muffler wouldn't be accepted, as there is no way to actually stop a spark in the thing. I ran into the same problem building soup-can mufflers for B&S engines on go-karts 'way back when.
 
the cat aint goin back on mine. i really like the sound with the FM40. not ricey at all. a XJ i bought one time had just a cat no muffler. that sounded ricey for real.

I am troubled that statements like this will make it appear that NAXJA condones the removal of Federally Mandated emissions equipment on vehicles.
 
I am troubled that statements like this will make it appear that NAXJA condones the removal of Federally Mandated emissions equipment on vehicles.

in that case i will make it clear that i dont speak for NAXJA. i speak for myself and believe in my right to modify my vehicle in ways that i see fit if it doesnt cause a hazard to other drivers. most people wouldnt know that i dont have a cat on my DAILY DRIVER because it isnt an obnoxious sound.

my state doesnt require a cat. "federally mandated" huh? so much for states rights yankee.
 
in that case i will make it clear that i dont speak for NAXJA. i speak for myself and believe in my right to modify my vehicle in ways that i see fit if it doesnt cause a hazard to other drivers. most people wouldnt know that i dont have a cat on my DAILY DRIVER because it isnt an obnoxious sound.

my state doesnt require a cat. "federally mandated" huh? so much for states rights yankee.

Ah, but basic emissions devices are Federally-mandated, mainly by the Federal EPA (some also by FMVSS.)

This is why there is a separate and fixed Federal warranty on new vehicle emissions devices, separate from (and usually in excess of) the warranty on the balance of the vehicle. Manufacturers/dealers may augment or extend this warranty, but the minimum time period/mileage is fixed by Federal regulation. I don't recall the terms of the warranty offhand, but you could probably find it at the USEPA or USDOT website.

State's right are falling apart, just like "property rights" are. cf: "Municipal Codes" - it's your property, but we can tell you what to do with it (and if that's not bad enough, try not paying your property taxes for a year or two and see what happens...)
 
tigerShark said:
my state doesnt require a cat. "federally mandated" huh? so much for states rights yankee.
Yes you ignorant Hillbilly :D, "Federally Mandated". Just because you are are unaware of the law, does not mean it does not affect you. It is also not a new law, it has been on the books since Catalytic converters were installed on vehicles.

As far as "harm" to your fellow drivers, what about everyone else on the planet? Did you measure emissions to make sure it polluted no more than it would have if it had a new converter? Of course you didn't, silly me. :dunce:

It also fits into the Tread Lightly (tm) philosophy to keep all your emissions equipment in top working order.

A while back, I posted something to the effect that if you wheel long enough, you come to appreciate this place we call America, and you become an environmentalist. I wish I could find the quote, it was a good one.
 
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